[beatle_bayly]

Just had my 164 in to the AC guy for a re-gas and he says the condenser fan isn't coming on so the pressures are too high, and he can't do much till we rectify the issue. He hotwired the fan and everything came good, so we suspect a relay.

Where is the AC condenser fan relay located ?

Anything else which is likely to prevent the fan coming on ?

Thanks,

 

[Craig]

G'Day Paul,

And I'm still not sure

 

[Alfisto Steve]

164 cooling fan and a/c switch info

Just had my 164 in to the AC guy for a re-gas and he says the condenser fan isn't coming on so the pressures are too high, and he can't do much till we rectify the issue. He hotwired the fan and everything came good, so we suspect a relay.

Where is the AC condenser fan relay located ?

Anything else which is likely to prevent the fan coming on ?

Thanks,

Does your engine and a/c cooling fan work when engine temp rises to about 200 F?

Do you have two speed fan? Check thermal switch in side of radiator tank closest to air cleaner box. If three wire switch - red wire high, white wire low and black ground then you have two relays and a low speed resistor in fan shroud behind engine coil bracket and 50A L/H speed fan relays outer most relays next to engine motronic red stripe and fuel pump relays.

If resistor in shroud bad then fan will not run when the a/c pressure hits 215 psi nor when engine coolant temp in radiator hits 198 F.

You can bypass resistor for summer driving by connecting its blue and brown wires together.

If you have single speed fan then one relay should still be near coil.

Check brown wire at Q20 trinairy switch on a/c receiver dryer. If you ground it to black ground wire at connector with key in on position cooling fan should come of if above mentioned stuff working.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Craig,

Looks as though it's lost something in the translation

I'll assume for now that the "engine coolant fan SUPPLEMENTARY relay" is the one I'm after.

Thanks mate.

 

[drubie]

Beatle, can I ask how much the re-gas cost? Mine needs one (and I assume a new receiver dryer + r134a gas) but I'm afraid to ask how much it will set me back

 

[beatle_bayly]

Excellent info thanks Steve. I'll take a look and get back.

So am I correct in assuming that:

1) A/C pressure switch activates fan via resistor for low speed ops above 215PSI,

2) Radiator thermal switch activates fan via resistor for low speed ops above 198degF, and

3) Radiator thermal switch activates fan directly for high speed ops above................?........some higher temp..............say 210degF ?

Using Craig's diagram, which relay powers the fan via the resistor for low speed ?

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Craig,

Looks as though it's lost something in the translation

I'll assume for now that the "engine coolant fan SUPPLEMENTARY relay" is the one I'm after.

Thanks mate.

NO NO that is I68 high speed relay in two speed system see wiring diagram above. Now I1 is low speed relay but I suspect O22 low speed resistor is bad.

If when grounding brown (jumping) to black wire at Q22 trinary switch I1 relay clicks, but no fan comes on resistor bad, If fan comes on then check trinary switch when a/c pressure hits 215 psi.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Beatle, can I ask how much the re-gas cost? Mine needs one (and I assume a new receiver dryer + r134a gas) but I'm afraid to ask how much it will set me back

The guy only added about 12 grams of R134 before stopping due to the fan probs. He charged me twenty bucks.

Has your system been dead for a while ? If so you will require a rec/dryer, but you may find it's rather generic so it shouldn't cost too much. Labour and gas won't be much either.

If the system is still charged but low on gas, I'd get a recharge and maybe add some dye so you can runb it for a while to see if it has a leak, before spending money on a full service.

 

[beatle_bayly]

NO NO that is I68 high speed relay in two speed system see wiring diagram above. Now I1 is low speed relay but I suspect O22 low speed resistor is bad.

If when grounding brown (jumping) to black wire at Q22 trinary switch relay clicks but no fan comes on resistor bad, If fan comes on then check trinary switch when a/c pressure hits 215 psi.

Roger Blue Leader

Man. I gotta get me a CarDisc for this model

 

[Alfisto Steve]

The guy only added about 12 grams of R134 before stopping due to the fan probs. He charged me twenty bucks.

Has your system been dead for a while ? If so you will require a rec/dryer, but you may find it's rather generic so it shouldn't cost too much. Labour and gas won't be much either.

If the system is still charged but low on gas, I'd get a recharge and maybe add some dye so you can runb it for a while to see if it has a leak, before spending money on a full service.

If converting from R12 to R134a you should replace receiver dryer and use ester oil not pag oil.

I also usually replace expansion valve and you have to remove old valve cores in service fittings and install install conversion fittings.

I still use R12 in my daily drivers but my 93 Rosso came to me converted to R134a and we converted my son's S to 134a.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Roger Blue Leader

Man. I gotta get me a CarDisc for this model

Yes you do, even though there are some differences in USA models (one on cardisc) over Euro spec models it is helpful. Andy told me he was making DVDs soon to cover all models but not sure when he is releasing them so check with him at www.cardsic.com

 

[drubie]

The guy only added about 12 grams of R134 before stopping due to the fan probs. He charged me twenty bucks.

Has your system been dead for a while ? If so you will require a rec/dryer, but you may find it's rather generic so it shouldn't cost too much. Labour and gas won't be much either.

If the system is still charged but low on gas, I'd get a recharge and maybe add some dye so you can runb it for a while to see if it has a leak, before spending money on a full service.

I think it's got R12 in it - 1989 model. No stickers indicating it's been changed and the local fridgey says he can't get R12 at all.

There is a bit of gas in it - the compressor comes on but I can't see any bubbles in the inspection port, so I'm stuffed if I know why it doesn't get cold (it gets, very slightly, colder than air temp if you wait long enough and you can feel the pulses in the hoses). I suspect it's been dead for at least 2 years though.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Do you have two speed fan? Check thermal switch in side of radiator tank closest to air cleaner box. If three wire switch - red wire high, white wire low and black ground then you have two relays and a low speed resistor in fan shroud behind engine coil bracket and 50A L/H speed fan relays outer most relays next to engine motronic red stripe and fuel pump relays.

If you have single speed fan then one relay should still be near coil.

Steve,

My thermal switch has TWO wires; black and brown. So I guess I have a single-speed fan and no resistor.

Immediately to the left of the coil there is a plastic cover. Under the cover reside two 30A relays, one having a red stripe.

 

[beatle_bayly]

I think it's got R12 in it - 1989 model. No stickers indicating it's been changed and the local fridgey says he can't get R12 at all.

There is a bit of gas in it - the compressor comes on but I can't see any bubbles in the inspection port, so I'm stuffed if I know why it doesn't get cold (it gets, very slightly, colder than air temp if you wait long enough and you can feel the pulses in the hoses). I suspect it's been dead for at least 2 years though.

Maybe you should enquire about one of the R12 replacements. These seem to work better in pre-134A systems. I believe they are compatible with R12 seals and lubricant.

 

[Craig]

I think it's got R12 in it - 1989 model. No stickers indicating it's been changed and the local fridgey says he can't get R12 at all.

It seems there are now one or two R12 substitutes available in OZ, one is ER12 produced by Origin Link. A search on ER12 also brings up Hychill and they have an agent in Orange.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Here are pics of my relays. They don't gel with the diagram posted by Craig.

The relay furthest right is a lot larger than the others. The diagram shows this to be the RH low beam relay, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a similar relay to the others, and I'd expect the LH low beam relay to be of similar construction.

-There are two relays to the right of the engine bay.
-Another two are mounted to the radiator shroud, with a third close by on the airbox.
-Three relays to the left of the engine bay.

Anyone care to identify them

 

[Craig]

Now you understand my confusion

The one with the red stripe and the one next to it will be the Motronic relays.

Of the three, one is the horn and one the lights.

That's as far as I can go at the moment.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Yeah the handbook is no use either. I guess I turn everything on and start pulling relays to see what goes off

 

[drubie]

It seems there are now one or two R12 substitutes available in OZ, one is ER12 produced by Origin Link. A search on ER12 also brings up Hychill and they have an agent in Orange.

Thanks for the tip Craig. The closest agent is probably Coffs Harbour for me (Armidale). Might ask the local guys anyway, it seems that they Hychill product would need a total evacuation of the system (kinda defeats the purpose, since it probably needs a new receiver dryer anyway).

Beatle, I have a copy of a 164 owners manual that has the relay stuff in it I think - only got it yesterday and haven't had a look through it yet.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Yeah the handbook is no use either. I guess I turn everything on and start pulling relays to see what goes off

Wish we could help you more but our USA models have two 50 amp large blade low and high speed relays next to red stripe Motronic and fuel pump relays in your second picture. Wonder what that holed bracket on your car for as our relay holder attach in similiar manner as red stripe one.

I wonder if that relay in same picture 2 mounted on air cleaner mount is for your cooling fan? What size fuse does it have? Do you have 40A fuse bar set up mounted on front battery terminal junction block on false firewall?

Different builds for different markets is confusing and then there doesn't seem to be any manuals for euro spec models to further complicate it.