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Discussion Starter #1
Another of my favorites - just wanted to share.

This sweet little thing is the Abarth 205A Berlinetta from 1950.
Design by Giovanni Michelotti for Vignale.
Box-section steel platform chassis / Vignale-built lightweight aluminum body.

Wiki says: "The Abarth 205 was a coupe sports car built by Austrian born tuning expert Carlo Abarth between 1950 and 1951. Only three cars were ever built."

Fiat-sourced 1100 Abarth straight 4, 83hp. (imagine, that's the equivalent of a 427/530hp!) Abarth provided "a revised intake manifold, two Weber carburettors and a bespoke exhaust."

The first two examples were raced in Italian events in 1950. A third was built in 1951, much more "luxuriously appointed," with a slightly larger engine. (I wonder if that's the silver one?) They were very expensive at the time, buyers were few, and only the three were built. The chassis was the basis of the later Abarth 207 race car.

The scale of it is deceiving until you see a person in it - it's tiny.

Great detail pics here...
http://www.coachbuild.com/2/index.php/encyclopedia/coachbuilders-models/item/vignale-abarth-205-a-berlinetta-1950

See design similarities to Ferrari 166 Vignale, Ferrari 212 Vignale, ferrari 340 America Vignale, etc.
https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2483/Abarth-205-Vignale-Berlinetta.html

Abarth-205-Vignale-Berlinetta-18655.jpeg

1920px-1950Abarth205Monza.jpg

Fiat_Abarth_205_1955.JPG

Vignale_Abarth_205A_Berlinetta_1950_03.jpeg

Vignale_Abarth_205A_Berlinetta_1950_19.jpeg
 

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Wonderful.

Similar to the Maserati A6.
Pete
 

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Very clean and pretty car, except the "Buick" fender portholes look funny on that car. I think I prefer the silver color.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've always been a Michelotti fan, and this is interesting to see a shape like this way before the easily identifiable Maserati Sebrings and TR6's with their creases and angles. But some of the signature forms are already there I think - the way it drapes or hangs down low over the wheels, with high wheel openings close to the tops of the fenders, as well as the cabin / greenhouse set back towards the rear. You'll see that in many of his designs later.

Maserati_3500_GTi_Sebring_02pop.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It also has a bit of American chopped-top / 50s hotrod in it - no doubt for light weight and aero drag. They did it for the same reason - speed on the lakes.
 

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A few years ago one of these came up for sale at auction. It would have been great to have the funds to buy it. It had been raced by someone who had modified it quite a bit, which held the price back. An absolutely gorgeous car.
 

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More pics....

The silver one was raced in 1950, Mille Miglia etc.

That is my friend's MM car.
Very pretty, and, as you say tiny, just 3ft 8 1/2" high:)
 

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Hello Vivace, this photo has been taken by Riccardo Moncalvo and is covered by copyright.
You aren't allowed to show it in public, so please remove it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Seriously?
Interesting because this was likely taken in 1951 or '52. Does that still apply?
And thanks to you, now Mr Moncalvo has full credit for the photo.
I found this easily out on the innerwebs - it seems to be in the public realm.
My intent is merely to share this fine design with others out there.

I'm happy to delete if that is the consensus of the BB.
 

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just a simple google search brings up that fine photo.
No problems then to post it in a forum like this, in my opinion!
As a courtesy, one could write "photo by....."
(in fact on the rhs of that same photo is in big letters "Abarth & Co", so perhaps they hold the copyright)

what you cannot do is publish it in a book (and make money out of it) without getting copyright permission from the author, or in this case, from his heirs or estate.
 

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Seriously?
Interesting because this was likely taken in 1951 or '52. Does that still apply?
And thanks to you, now Mr Moncalvo has full credit for the photo.
I found this easily out on the innerwebs - it seems to be in the public realm.
My intent is merely to share this fine design with others out there.

I'm happy to delete if that is the consensus of the BB.
Vivace, I'm the archive curator. You 're infringing the EU legislation: all the images are protected by the copyright for 75 years after the author's death. So this image is protected until 2083. It is not in the public realms, we are summoning a lot of websites, photos by photos.
 

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what you cannot do is publish it in a book (and make money out of it) without getting copyright permission from the author, or in this case, from his heirs or estate.
No, you're wrong. Abarth isn't the copyright owner. The copyright owner is who keeps the negative, and in this case, as many others, the archive keeps the original negative. The same for Foto Locchi and Dirk de Jaeger
The web isn't a public square where anybody can do everything they like without the permission.
 

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Seriously?
Interesting because this was likely taken in 1951 or '52. Does that still apply?
And thanks to you, now Mr Moncalvo has full credit for the photo.
I found this easily out on the innerwebs - it seems to be in the public realm.
My intent is merely to share this fine design with others out there.

I'm happy to delete if that is the consensus of the BB.
Vivace, I'm the archive curator. You 're infringing the EU legislation: all the images are protected by the copyright for 75 years after the author's death. So this image is protected until 2083. It is not in the public realms, we are summoning a lot of websites, photos by photos.

As much as it pains me to say so (because of the in-period documentary and therefore educational value of the image), for all I know, PG1964 is correct and his request to remove the picture should be granted -- without hesitation.

This web page provides an excellent overview of copyright of images and "fair use" practices. The summary on that page states: "When it comes to photos, when in doubt, assume it’s subject to copyright and don’t use it without the appropriate permission" (i.e get permission first, if possible). By extension, this means one should comply to a request for removing a picture by somebody who claims to have the copyright, or claims to represent a copyright owner. The easiest solution would be for the poster to remove the picture. PG1964 could also chose to report the post to the admins/moderators and have them remove the picture (I'm pretty sure they would comply) or he could take legal action. I appreciate he is using a friendly approach first.

Then again, I would hope PG1964 will keep his post #15 (with the picture) unchanged so that there is at least some evidence that this picture exists (and what the discussion fuzz about copyright was about).
 
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