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Discussion Starter #1
I am in the process of restoring a 91 alfa spider with 28,000 miles on the clock. It had a engine bay fire and a little bit of body damage. Took care of all the wires so far. Now that I have all the intake side off, I want to tackle the compressor. It had some kind of lawnmower pull cord wrapped around the clutch and looks like it ripped off the red wire for the clutch. Is there any way of taking off the clutch, wihout pulling the compressor out? I would hate to have to evacuate all the freon that is in the system if I don't have to. And if I do have to, what do I have to do to convert it to the new type freon?
 

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I think your car should have a Sanden...but not sure if its the 508 or 507 (cant remember, but one has the 2 ports on top, other has them in back). But, the link below shows you must remove the compressor. Some comps do not have to be removed, but ours must.

http://ww2.justanswer.de/uploads/budnshe/2009-07-23_022713_fc8301140wm.pdf

Also, you need some special tools. good luck.
 

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How can you be sure the R12 is still in there?? I mean, youre taling of a 20 yr old car. Yeah, it may have ben recharged at a recent date, so theres a good chance its there. One easy way is to just tap for just a brief 1/5th second to see if you hear a pssssssst. Dont release any more than a trace, cuz its illegal. You wont be letting out much with that. Not even enough to fill a vial of mascara.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
How can you be sure the R12 is still in there?? I mean, youre taling of a 20 yr old car. Yeah, it may have ben recharged at a recent date, so theres a good chance its there. One easy way is to just tap for just a brief 1/5th second to see if you hear a pssssssst. Dont release any more than a trace, cuz its illegal. You wont be letting out much with that. Not even enough to fill a vial of mascara.

Did that on the first analysis. But thanks anyhow.
 

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a 91 should have a Sanden 507 unless it has been changed at some date since mfg. If you have a manifold guage set, connect both the high and low valves and see what kind of static pressure you have. If you have any r12 remaining in system you will have to have it professionally recovered for reclaim/recycle. To vent any r12 is illegal and the EPA has the ability to fine you $500,000 for any such venting.

After you have it evacuated, you will probably need to remove the compressor to remove the clutch..if the clutch is inoperable, i wouldnt bother as the clutch is expensive and the compressor my have a poor main seal anyhow--if it doesn't any hamhandedness with the clutch removal or re-installation will ruin the seal anyhow.

The complete compressor/clutch assy is available new.

If you want to covert to r134a, you really need to replace the compressor, dryer/receiver, all of the O rings, preferable to replace the hoses with barrier type hoses and flush the system while you are at it. Also, the spider's condenser is very small so dont expect r134a to cool nearly as well as the r12 it was designed for.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think your car should have a Sanden...but not sure if its the 508 or 507 (cant remember, but one has the 2 ports on top, other has them in back). But, the link below shows you must remove the compressor. Some comps do not have to be removed, but ours must.

http://ww2.justanswer.de/uploads/budnshe/2009-07-23_022713_fc8301140wm.pdf

Also, you need some special tools. good luck.
That was very useful information. I will have to fabricate a wrench at work. The compressor still has gas. I fanagled it where I think I can get it off without disconnecting the lines. If I can find a clutch at a reasonable price, I will change it. Or buy a really cheap compressor with clutch on it and use clutch on my compressor. Don't want to get a used compressor as the one I have only has 28000 miles on it.

Thanks! Very much!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
a 91 should have a Sanden 507 unless it has been changed at some date since mfg. If you have a manifold guage set, connect both the high and low valves and see what kind of static pressure you have. If you have any r12 remaining in system you will have to have it professionally recovered for reclaim/recycle. To vent any r12 is illegal and the EPA has the ability to fine you $500,000 for any such venting.

After you have it evacuated, you will probably need to remove the compressor to remove the clutch..if the clutch is inoperable, i wouldnt bother as the clutch is expensive and the compressor my have a poor main seal anyhow--if it doesn't any hamhandedness with the clutch removal or re-installation will ruin the seal anyhow.

The complete compressor/clutch assy is available new.

If you want to covert to r134a, you really need to replace the compressor, dryer/receiver, all of the O rings, preferable to replace the hoses with barrier type hoses and flush the system while you are at it. Also, the spider's condenser is very small so dont expect r134a to cool nearly as well as the r12 it was designed for.
****, I was hoping that it was just seals. Do you know about what kind of price range it would cost to convert? Sounds like a pain in the ARSE! Maybe I will just stick with the R12 . I have seen them for sale on E-Bay, dont know if it is legal or not.. Also, I have been told that one can get them from mexico. I know of some people that go to the border towns.

Thanks for the INFO!
 

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i am pretty shure if it had an engine fire, the r12 is gone
 

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I have an S4 that's clocked over 100k. I'm the second owner, and when the A/C stopped working I just dropped the top a little more. (Or less when the Global Warming was in effect and temps near 90) I had always heard that the A/C compressor for S4's was unavailable.. Is there a new source that I can go to? How much money are we talking? And, is it really worth the effort since the seals would all need replacing?

How many seals are there? I didn't see any last time the hood was up.


KKKKFL
 

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Some have converted the system by just evacuating the r-12, putting on screw on r12 to r134 charging port adaptors, vacuuming the system down and then charging with 80% r134a [80% of the weight required for r12 for the system], then adding about 6oz of ester oil. IMHO, this is not the way to go. Results can be very poor from poor cooling to "black death" of the system. Also a 22 yr old mobile a/c system is going to have some moisture in it...it is not compressable and needs to be removed. the old o rings on r12 systems are not up to the job of keeping the finer 134a molecules inside the system nor are the old hoses. With all that said, it may be worth a try if you wish to risk it. the amount of labor to do it properly is huge and involves partial removal of the dash, lots of work underneath the intake plenum r&r of the condenser.

By the way,
A new replacement compressor should be available at:
Nostalgic Air Parts, Tampa FL (nfi)

the only hitch is that the flare fittings are no longer used so either you will have to use adaptor fittings or have the hose fittings changed to vertical stack o ring type.
 

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I have an S4 that's clocked over 100k. I'm the second owner, and when the A/C stopped working I just dropped the top a little more. (Or less when the Global Warming was in effect and temps near 90) I had always heard that the A/C compressor for S4's was unavailable.. Is there a new source that I can go to? How much money are we talking? And, is it really worth the effort since the seals would all need replacing?

How many seals are there? I didn't see any last time the hood was up.


KKKKFL
Seals:
there are 3 orings where the hoses and txv are attached to the evaporator..behind RH dash. there are two orings where the hoses attach to the compressor [could have flange fittings instead]. there are two orings where the hoses attach to the receiver/dryer and two orings where the hoses attach to the condenser. There is a main seal on the compressor shaft [not intended to be changed unless replacing/rebuilding compressor].

Can you verify that your S4 has a Sanden SD 507 or 508 compressor?
 

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the compressor is probably grimy but there should be a metallic sticker on the body that identifies the model number..spray some brake clean on it and wipe gently--should show up then.
 

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Mine is a 91 model and it is a Sanden compressor.

I got it converted to r134a last year. I got a new drier (expensive as had to import from US - $50 postage!) and then the system was flushed, new o rings put in, a "retro Kit" fitted (I think that was mostly the new filling valves as they are different fittings), as well as the new drier, and filled with refrigerant.

All in all it cost about £250 ($400ish?) to get it changed over, we get stung in the UK for aircon work.
It does work OK but then we don't get such high temps as those of you in the US experience.
 

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FrancosAlfa,

this compressor is a licensed build new SD 507 with serpentine belt and o ring type ports. it is available from previous source listed for about $200.00. If you replace, i would at the very least replace the system o rings and the receiver/dryer...it is available from IAP for about $60 last time i looked.
 

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'91 Spider A/C aircon repairs

The '91 uses a Sanden 508 compressor. They are scarce as hen's teeth here in the USA, so I had mine rebuilt locally at a competent shop.

There are two ways to do this, and I'll be brutally frank with you.:eek:

If you want to do the job more than once, and if you don't mind half-fast A/C system performance, then go ahead and fiddle with it yourself and try to "fix" it. What you do not or cannot fix will fail soon afterward (seal? clutch lead wire?).

However, if you want a system that cools decently, and will last a while, then get your compressor pulled and the R12 evacuated by a competent shop. Have them rebuild your existing compressor, with a new seal, replace the broken lead wire (an Achilles heel with these units), and install the R134a fittings. The R134a is cheaper and readily available, and will not affect the cooling as much as some say, if they install the correct amount and get acceptable hi/lo pressures.

Your choice!
 
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