[Targhediferro]

Hallo everybody, I like very much this beautiful Pininfarina coupè realized on 6c2500, and I was fascinated from the level of the restoring work (as always happen with the same owner cars). Anyway there is something I can't understand. Roma 25049 is a plate from about 1930, and so It's very strange on a 1950 car; if the plate is applied just for shows, I suggest to find another more fitting with the year, if it's the correct one I would like to know what's its history. Thanks

 

[PG1964]

I saw that wrong plate too, i'll ask to Lopresto in May at Villa d'Este.
Meanwhile i have the same question for you:
why there is a '50s plate on a 1938 car?
This time the plate is original because i saw it in many period photos.

 

[PG1964]

Probably the plate is correct, but it's the same fitted on 2 different cars.

 

[aldo]

I saw that wrong plate too, i'll ask to Lopresto in May at Villa d'Este.
Meanwhile i have the same question for you:
why there is a '50s plate on a 1938 car?
This time the plate is original because i saw it in many period photos.

What is the purpose of a LPlate holder on both back corners of this car?

(Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the luggage shelf.)

 

[bellabarbas]

PG1964 says: Meanwhile i have the same question for you:
why there is a '50s plate on a 1938 car?

Probably because it was sold in the province of Rome in the 50s.

While Roma 25049 it has no connection with reality !

 

[PG1964]

No Corrado, because there is the fascist emblem on the plate, typical of the period and, as i said before, that plate is in the original photos.
This is the car used during the Hitler's visit in Rome on May, 3, 1938.

 

[iicarJohn]

Roma plates

I have not done specific research on any of the plates shown above, but I do have a few notes.

For 25049, I have recorded: "Used by (well-known collector) for display purposes on his Alfa Romeo 6C2500 berlina PF". I can look up some more detail but the plate is not historically "correct" for the car and has no useful value for us other than "looking good".

For 62388, the plate was assigned March or April 1938 to a Lancia and there is seemingly no incongruity whatsoever in the car having been used early in May to transport Hitler.

For 205592, which I did not have listed previously, I can guess that the plate was issued July 1954 and therefor is probably not historically accurate for either of the Lancia Flaminia Zagato cars that display it in photos that can be seen above.

There are many faux plates in use for display purposes. Not just Italian. There are a surprising number of California "black-plate" cars that do not have "black-plate" numbering patterns but which have lovely new paint. About five years ago I remember seeing a car that rolled across an auction stand in Arizona with "original black plate" as part of its description. It featured a personalized plate that never could have existed when the paint-motif was in use.

A few specific instances of incorrect plate use (and even identity-confusion, as a result) have been discussed already in some other threads. Although such use is generally outside the specific letter of the law of most governing bodies, there is probably little harm being done. However, as with many small harms, they can add up. I know that I have researched a number of plates that have led to no enlightenment about the car being studied but there has often been something learned about some unexpected aspect of my study. Frustrating at times for the student of automotive history? Yes. "Crime of the century"? No.

I can understand that an observant judge might use such a detail to help make a determination of a class-winner at a concours but otherwise, it can be pleasant to see what simply appears to be an old plate on an old car. Kind of like wearing "period" clothing that is almost correct for certain situations. Or pretending that the paint is "original" simply because the color is as close as you could get it ... based on an eighty-year-old sample.

 

[PG1964]

Thank you John.

The fact is targhediterro said -Roma25049- is a '50s plate and you said
-Roma62388- was assigned on March/April 1938.
It seems to me something doesn't match and you know why i'm asking to targhediferro and to you that. But i would like to listen what targhediferro can say before to solve the mistery.

 

[Targhediferro]

Sorry PG...I said 25049 is a '30 plate (perhaps also late 1929), not '50. It's simply impossible that a car built in 1950 has a plate issued twenty years before because in Italy plates own to the car and not the owner; than you're wrong when you think 62388 is a '50 plate, as iicarjohn told you, that plate is from 1938 and is absolutely correct with facism badge.
About the Flaminias too, I agree with iicarjohn, because Rome 205592 is a plate from 1954 and so it can't be right for neither of the two cars.

 

[Targhediferro]

Hallo iicjohn,
I don't have the pleasure to know you, but i read many of your threads and I'like to thank you for all the pictures and news you have shared with all of us, always very interesting. I just want to replay you about the fact a wrong plate is not the crime of the year; of course it doesn't and more, I prefer to see a beautiful restored car with a faux plate than with an howful coloured actual plate, but I think is important that the faux plate is almost a copy of the original plate of the car. I think it's a little work with a great difference is final look.

 

[PG1964]

Thank you targhediferro.
I unmatched the cards on the table voluntarily, because i need to understand better.
The fact the 25049 plate is a 1929/30 plate gave confidence to me, because i knew the 62388 and the 3 consecutive plates weren't ever registered to the PRA. Probably you already know there is a Regio Decreto (n°1814/27) wich prescribes that the Royal and the State vehicles were exempted from the PRA registration.
In particular Mussolini gave that Astura torpedo as a present to Hitler at the end of his visit in Italy in 1938, after the sign of the "Steel treaty". Actually the car is still in the Ecclestone's collection.
I found 3 Asturas torpedo survived, from different lots, with a complicate story behind and i'm trying to put a light on them.

 

[Targhediferro]

Hallo PG..., as you correctly say, RD 1814/27 exempted Royal and State vehicles from PRA registration, but not from having a plate. As it's even today, the "Motorizzazione Civile" a department of Minster of Transport, gives the plate and the papers who certify that car (with that proper chassis number) has given that plate (Libretto di circolazione e Foglio Matricolare, oggi CDP), than the owner must register the car in PRA (now it's always done automatically by acency). So, it's strange that 62388 was not registred in PRA, because it had a civil plate, but it's possible if the first owner reported in papers was perhaps the King.
Very interesting your research about Asturas, specially for a Lancia owner as I'm; I've a Augusta from 1935 (original plate CO 9635), taken from Nazi in 1944 and given back in 1947 to the owner and so picking up a new plate (Coni issue) VA 23536.

 

[PG1964]

Hi, we already did a research at the Pra in Rome about those 4 cars with consecutive numbers. I haven't the numbers now, but i'll send you by PM. They said many plates were assigned to the Ministero degli Interni in 1938, but the plates don't correspond to any cars. The lot assigned to the Quirinale garage was another, produced by Pininfarina in 1939, we know the chassis numbers, but not the plates.
Nice to read you own a Lancia, maybe you already know this website: Viva Lancia. For Lancisti By Lancisti. Per Lancisti Da Lancisti