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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So i have a question about this, I have owned 3 95 LS's in the past. Both auto and manual. I used B&G on both and replaced struts with brand new ones on one of them along with the springs and 17 inch wheels and tires. Ride was tight and perfect in my opinion. Now fast forward to the current vehicle which is another 95 LS auto. I just got done installing B&G springs again with 17 inch wheels and tires as well and the car looks really low in the front. I am scraping the front end just about everywhere. It is ok on most surfaces unless you encounter a sudden imperfection on the highway it hits it really hard. Feels like the shcoks might need replacement. (110K).

Question is, what is going to happen to the ride height. Do worn out shocks affect ride height. Mechanic says no. Thinks there is a problem with springs. I tend to disagree since i have used the same exact setup on the same exact model and mileage. What are your opinions on that subject. shcoks and ride height looked and felt pretty good with original 15 inch wheels and beefy tires which is understandable. I just need to know if the ride height in the front will get change with strut replacement.
 

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So i have a question about this, I have owned 3 95 LS's in the past. Both auto and manual. I used B&G on both and replaced struts with brand new ones on one of them along with the springs and 17 inch wheels and tires. Ride was tight and perfect in my opinion. Now fast forward to the current vehicle which is another 95 LS auto. I just got done installing B&G springs again with 17 inch wheels and tires as well and the car looks really low in the front. I am scraping the front end just about everywhere. It is ok on most surfaces unless you encounter a sudden imperfection on the highway it hits it really hard. Feels like the shcoks might need replacement. (110K).

Question is, what is going to happen to the ride height. Do worn out shocks affect ride height. Mechanic says no. Thinks there is a problem with springs. I tend to disagree since i have used the same exact setup on the same exact model and mileage. What are your opinions on that subject. shcoks and ride height looked and felt pretty good with original 15 inch wheels and beefy tires which is understandable. I just need to know if the ride height in the front will get change with strut replacement.
Nothing wrong with springs if they are B&G. Where did you purchase them?
What struts are you using? Stock? Usually shocks can handle automatic but if shocks are worn then they can sag a little.
I have installed them on plenty of LS's and Supers which leveled the car off, so IMO it's worn shocks. I would suggest koni upgrades if you replace them since you have base struts. They are cheaper than Sach's and will handle better lower in chamber compared to Stock. But stock can handle the springs well but not if high mileage.

Jason
 

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1991 164L
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A/T and 164S/Q stock springs are stronger than 164B/L/LS 5-speed springs so maybe your new B&G springs are not strong enough for heavier 95LS w/AT.
 

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A/T and 164S/Q stock springs are stronger than 164B/L/LS 5-speed springs so maybe your new B&G springs are not strong enough for heavier 95LS w/AT.
B&G have a much higher rate than A/T,S/Q front Springs. As mentioned I have done plenty of auto LS's with B&G. Something else is wrong, like struts are worn and if you have driven on them they may now be dead!
 

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Wornout shocks do not lift a car at all, new ones with a gas charge do lift a car slightly, even though conventional wisdom is that shocks and struts do not lift a car's height. I have seen cars that I have worked on with new shocks installed, looking higher than before and that after the car is settled. When you compress a new set of struts they have a good deal of force in them to extend themselves again and that force does do a bit of lifting IMO.
Charles
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RE: new struts

Thank you all for your insight on this matter. I am not aware of Koni's for the LS. I have installed Sachs/Boge sports on of the LS's I owned before and they were great. Jason, do you have any experience with the koni's and where i can find them and for how much? are they btter thab Sachs?
 

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A long while back when I had my 164, replacing the worn out struts with new ones raised the front end considerably, like probably an inch front and rear, I would give a new set of struts front and rear a try.
 

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Thank you all for your insight on this matter. I am not aware of Koni's for the LS. I have installed Sachs/Boge sports on of the LS's I owned before and they were great. Jason, do you have any experience with the koni's and where i can find them and for how much? are they btter thab Sachs?
Yes of course, I have tons of experience with konis. You can find them under my suspension section -> Performance suspension.
They are much different than Sachs, not better just different and higher performance. Sachs is a great strut but limited. Koni is adjustable to standard to extremely stiff for race situations. They are more versatile. They are less expensive than Sachs!

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Update on ride height problem

After taking the car to a reputable Alfa shop and diagnsing the problem with bad shocks and ordering new ones, the shop tells me the front B&G springs that are 2 months old are collapsed and the shcoks are fine......

Now what?? They even experimented with their own setof B&G and newer shcosk they said and still the same ride height. They are bkaming it on the auto tranny wieght.

I have done this before on the anothe 95 LS auto with same exact brand springs and NEWR Sachs/Boge shocks and it eas fine. so i dont really get it. There is gotta be something else wrong.

Dpes any ne know of any other brands that are more suited for the auto LS. Like Sparco, Spax, H&R...Any experinces with those brands??

I have used Sparco springs but on a 91 S and that was fine.

Please help..
 

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Springs not struts are what determines ride height on a 164. I find it hard to believe that two sets of B&G springs would both be collasping on your LS. You have them in the rear, too?
 

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After taking the car to a reputable Alfa shop and diagnsing the problem with bad shocks and ordering new ones, the shop tells me the front B&G springs that are 2 months old are collapsed and the shcoks are fine......

Now what?? They even experimented with their own setof B&G and newer shcosk they said and still the same ride height. They are bkaming it on the auto tranny wieght.

I have done this before on the anothe 95 LS auto with same exact brand springs and NEWR Sachs/Boge shocks and it eas fine. so i dont really get it. There is gotta be something else wrong.

Dpes any ne know of any other brands that are more suited for the auto LS. Like Sparco, Spax, H&R...Any experinces with those brands??

I have used Sparco springs but on a 91 S and that was fine.

Please help..
No way. Not auto tranny either. Most likely bad struts. Have them call me if you like, B&G are the best forget the rest.

Try Koni, cheaper than stock and better to handle springs.
 

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H&R springs sit even lower

I initially purchased a set of H&R performance springs for my 164LS and found the ride height too low. I then went with the B&G's and was satisfied with the outcome.

Did you purchase these springs new or used? If used, is it possible they've been mis-identified between these 2 brands?
 

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No way. Not auto tranny either. Most likely bad struts. Have them call me if you like, B&G are the best forget the rest.

Try Koni, cheaper than stock and better to handle springs.
How do you figure struts determine ride height and bottoming out?

Springs determine ride height and shortened (modified) front bump stops with lowering springs installed should prevent bottoming. Granted dead struts no gas and oil leaks will bottom springs easier and kill bump stops.

Wonder if he has any bump stops installed?

As for rear lowering springs I use unmodified front bump stops back there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have B&G both

fron and rear. I am not sure about the bump stops. They never mentioned them. They are a well known expensibe and reputable Alfa shop recommended by many. They have done this car before.

Im still thinking its the shocks but they insisit my shocks are fine. When i did this car before i used sachs/Boge SPORT. the ones they got foe me and tried on the car are the OEM sachs/boge. Not sure if may be that makes a difference.

Im frustrated and annoyed as i thought this would be a simple fix.

I will ask about the bump stop and possible stiffer sttruts i used before on the same car.
 

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fron and rear. I am not sure about the bump stops. They never mentioned them. They are a well known expensibe and reputable Alfa shop recommended by many. They have done this car before.

Im still thinking its the shocks but they insisit my shocks are fine. When i did this car before i used sachs/Boge SPORT. the ones they got foe me and tried on the car are the OEM sachs/boge. Not sure if may be that makes a difference.

Im frustrated and annoyed as i thought this would be a simple fix.

I will ask about the bump stop and possible stiffer sttruts i used before on the same car.
Can you shoot some pics?
I can bet the struts are gone. I have seen several 164's with fading or bad struts sit much lower. Especially in front.
Springs do determine right height yes. But if the strut is not there to help then you can see a little sag.
Typically OEM struts cannot handle Lowering springs due to the fact that the shaft sits lower in the tube thus causing damage or weaken them enough to cause them to slightly sag.

I always recommend KONI as they are made to handle B+G springs, if OEM struts are new, they will work. But who knows for how long. I have seen some last for a good while but most who upgrade are glad they did.

Bump stops need to be installed and cut down by 1.25"/30mm
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Jason, Thanks for all the info

you provided, I just spoke with the shop and they seem to be out of ideas to fix the ptoblem. They said they swapped the shocks with the new ones they ordered and did not make a difference. They instaleed a nothe spting they had in the shop and it only made a half inch difference, The seem to think i need a taller spring...they are saying they a need a bout an inch and half diffrence here, This is very frustrating.

I figured they will be the ones to fix the problem sinve they are in the alfa buisness and were highly recommended. I bought these spring new on ebay 2 years ago from an aftermarket company and never installed them till a couple pf months ago. Like i said in previous posts i have dont the same exact set up before on another 95 LS auto but with newer struts (sachs/boge) sports. If you know of another shop that has better experience in southern california let me know please. Also im trying tostay away from the Konis since i remember you telling me it is not an exact fit and some mods have to be made. Correct?? so I would rather stay with stock if i can that would be even better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here is the latest on my dilema

after discussing all of hte above with the shop, they insists it is a spring problem (too short) for the automatic LS. They also mentioned that B&G made 2 sets for these cars (one for manual and anothe for automatics) and they are no able to locate the correct one for the car. Replacing shocks will not affect ride height according to them and unless i am able to find a taller spring i am wasting time and money. Sorry jason, i tried to get them to call you but they were not amused by that idea. So i guess now i just need some confirmation regarding the different spring for the automatic and if it exists a place where i can find it.
 

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after discussing all of hte above with the shop, they insists it is a spring problem (too short) for the automatic LS. They also mentioned that B&G made 2 sets for these cars (one for manual and anothe for automatics) and they are no able to locate the correct one for the car. Replacing shocks will not affect ride height according to them and unless i am able to find a taller spring i am wasting time and money. Sorry jason, i tried to get them to call you but they were not amused by that idea. So i guess now i just need some confirmation regarding the different spring for the automatic and if it exists a place where i can find it.
No, B&G did not make two sets for the 164. Only 1 set for all except Q4 models. These are straight out of Sweden and I have never had anyone have problems with them. Now, my concern is that they are not actually B&G springs. If they are IAP springs, thats your problem! I have put these on LS automatic's, L autos, and all 5 speeds with same results 1 1//4 inch drop regardless of KONI's or Stock shocks used and transmission.

Can you take pictures of the springs with the numbers on them? The have numbers printed on the spring in the middle. Usually in Yellow!

Where did you buy these? I figure not from me since your not asking me to replace them. So if you did not buy them through me then I suspect they are not real B&G's. IAP springs look similar but are not even close to the same product. They rake the car at least 1"+ difference from front to rear.

If you want me to help I need to know these things. I am the only B&G- alfa Romeo dealer.

Jason
 
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