[esmeenge]

My 1995 164 LS is experiencing hesitation when starting. It takes me 2 or 3 (rarely 4) times to get the engine to start. It is turning over fine, it just doesn't seem to want to start up. Also, sometimes when it is starting on that second time, it studders as it starts up, not really wanting to get going, more like a monday morning for the human race. I feel like it could be a lack of spark, but I haven't been able to find spark plugs (ignition coils?).

Any ideas what it could be?

 

[goats]

measure the fuel pressure at the rail; both when running and when you turn the car off. running pressure should be 43 psi +/-. Pressure should stay above 35 psi overnight after you turn car off. If pressure drops immediately and fast to close to zero then you probably have a split hose in the fuel pump assembly.

 

[esmeenge]

So, I'm a dummy when it comes to pressure and testing levels. How would I test fuel pressure?

Thanks for your help

 

[goats]

Bring it to a mechanic ask him to put a pressure gauge on the fuel rail. I presume you don't have one.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

See this post and note as it says fuel pressure line on a 24v engine on back of front fuel rail not front as shown in picture of 12v engine set up. Read this post closely to understand how once you have fuel pressure with relay jumpered and key turn on a good system will hold the pressure showing on the gauge when you turn the key off.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1168004-post136.html

 

[Del]

Also go through the engine bay, cleaning all the electrical connections you see, including the sparkplug/ignition wire multiconnectors under the air cleaner box. Those, esp, get dirty and need cleaning and protecting with dielectric grease once in a while.

Also, you don't say which plugs you are using, but most have the best luck with the NGK Iridiums of the correct heat range for your model according to the NGK web site.

If you wish to learn to keep/maintain this car, get a copy of the workshop manual, and peruse the Fiat eper parts manual on the web to see how all the parts go together. If not maintained in good condition, in other words not kept up to snuff, it could drive the novice crazy. Otherwise, it is a great car, as ours is.

 

[kredden]

Do these cars have cold start injectors? If so does this happen only when the engine is cold or hot as well, if also when hot then it isn't the CSI (if it has one).

Kevin

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Do these cars have cold start injectors? If so does this happen only when the engine is cold or hot as well, if also when hot then it isn't the CSI (if it has one).

Kevin

No cold start injector on motronic system. Cold start fuel injection controlled by engine ECU based on higher resistance reading of coolant temp sensor in thermostat housing. So the fuel enrichment during cold start comes through all 6 fuel injectors.

 

[kredden]

Thanks, I wasn't sure how the Motronics worked, never having had one. My Megasquirt has allowed me to ditch the CSI as well (in the Milano).

Kevin

 

[esmeenge]

Wow, Thanks for all the great responses. This car is driving me more and more crazy as I fall in love with it more. So, today, the car started after third try. Then it felt, as only could be described as having a heavier burble to the exhaust. It also felt like the engine was unmounted and moving around. The whole car would vibrate as I accelerated. Then, at a stop sign, the car was on the verge of stalling, I gave it gas so it wouldn't, and it kept going and didn't stall again.

P.S. I am going to be buying a fuel pressure tester today in order to test that pressure.

Does this help anyone diagnose the problem I am experiencing.

Thanks

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Does it ever straighten up and fly right - as in smooth idle and smooth under power? When was last timing belt change and cam timing check done?

As for that fuel injection pressure tester be advised, you have to make a T-fitting adapter with matching valve core fitting to match tester and get short piece of 5/16" (7.9mm} hose and clamps to insert it in the fuel system at rear of front fuel rail. This is because there isn't a test fitting on the 164 fuel rails.

See my homemade testing T-fitting, short hose and clamps in the pictures in this link I posted above:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1168004-post136.html

 

[esmeenge]

Yes, it does return back to normal. Drives great when that happens. How easy is the pressure test? Any cutting involved?

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Yes, it does return back to normal. Drives great when that happens. How easy is the pressure test? Any cutting involved?

No cutting of hoses. Once you have made the test T-fitting I show in my linked post above and you have the spare piece of hose you just remove pressure hose from rear of front fuel rail on front head (24V only), insert T-fitting into car's pressure hose and short hose. Then hook short hose to fuel rail fitting. Clamp tight the three clamps you need (one being the one already on car's pressure hose) plus two for short hose.

Remove fuel pump relay, insert jumper wire as shown in my post link above in terminals 30 pink to 87 pink-white, turn on key watch pressure gauge record pressure, turn off key and see if pressure stays trapped showing in gauge. If not you have a bad hose in tank or bad check valve on pump (also in fuel tank).

You will be better serviced with your problem(s) over in 164 section of this bulletin board.

 

[esmeenge]

Thank you so much! You are so extremely helpful on this bulletin board, I don't know if anyone has thanked you enough.

 

[Del]

" It also felt like the engine was unmounted and moving around. The whole car would vibrate as I accelerated"

Sounds like maybe a fouled plug or other ignition problem, as after we returned from our trip, I started the Milano for the first time in a month and it acted just like that. Really shook the engine, with low power. Turns out it was a fouled plug which cleared up after a mile or so. then the engine runs great.

Take the plugs out and check them, or replace. As I mentioned before the NGK Iridiums work very well in these engines, for thousands of miles, well worth the cost for the 24v engines.

Also, with these 94/95 164, the electrical multiconnectors under the air filter box can get contaminated, and cause a sparkplug, or more, to not fire sometimes. Had that problem with our LS until I cleaned all the electrical connections in the engine bay. Cleaning those multiconnectors did the trick. No more misfiring.

Do the simple stuff first.

 

[esmeenge]

So, I have checked 3 of 6 spark plugs (not sure how to get to the other 3), but today, as I was driving at about 80mph, it was a very heavy vibration in the steering wheel, feels like the wheel is coming off the axel.. or again, the engine is just moving freely.

 

[Del]

Heavy vibration in the steering wheel is usually a problem with tire balance.

Switch the wheels front to back and then drive it again. If the vibration goes away for the most part, the problem was a badly out of balance front tire. If the vibration still exists, either the new front tires are also out of balance, or there is a shock problem., or even something else. Switching the wheels front to rear will at least tell you if one or more of the tires is out of balance. Maybe lost a weight somehow?

I wonder if this is also related somehow to your other problem of poor fuel pressure. Maybe the engine is misfiring due to bad/dirty ignition wiring connectors under the air filter box. Happened with my 24V engine.