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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Following along with this thread and others with similar symptoms, I have the same problem. My LS was running great until three days ago when it would not start. As indicated by many of the great minds here and a very savy friend, I had the battery replaced with a brand new one, the cables cleaned, etc. and no joy. Is there a diagram that anyone can refer me to so I can follow along with the other trouble shooting proceedures, I.e., ignition switch, gear shift, P1, etc.?

If this helps, I can push start it with no problem and once it is on, it runs great, all the lights work fine when the key is turned on, there is a clicking sound when the key goes all the way over but now start...

Please help... This car is way to amazing to let her sit in the garage....

Thanks in advance, GalfnAlfa
:confused:
 

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1991 164L
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AR164-05 Starter circuit troubleshooting

Following along with this thread and others with similar symptoms, I have the same problem. My LS was running great until three days ago when it would not start. As indicated by many of the great minds here and a very savy friend, I had the battery replaced with a brand new one, the cables cleaned, etc. and no joy. Is there a diagram that anyone can refer me to so I can follow along with the other trouble shooting proceedures, I.e., ignition switch, gear shift, P1, etc.?

If this helps, I can push start it with no problem and once it is on, it runs great, all the lights work fine when the key is turned on, there is a clicking sound when the key goes all the way over but now start...

Please help... This car is way to amazing to let her sit in the garage....

Thanks in advance, GalfnAlfa
:confused:
First off do you have a good fully charged battery with proper level of electrolyte/distilled water in each cell with correct specific gravity in each cell?

If you get a click when you turn key to start that is probably I10 starter relay under fuse panel door which is located on left side of console to left of radio area. You need to open fuse panel door and verify that it is I10 relay that is clicking. If Bosch relay it will have red strip on it. RED STRIPE means it has a diode in it.

Now to verify it is actually energizing and sending current forward towards starter solenoid you need to open hood, remove plastic cover over a/c components behind false firewall at base of windshield.

Locate largest round electrical connector G151 near blower motor housing and unscrew it and locate pin 1 (black power wire) that comes from I10 starter relay. With key on check for 12v at this pin when relay clicks.

If you have power check female socket 1 in other half of connector for damage/corrosion. Clean with electrical connector cleaner and apply some dielectric grease and reconnect and see if starter will now work.

If still no joy you need to try to access black wire going from that pin 1 in G151 at starter A11 itself underneath car and check for power with key in start.

Here are a couple pictures that may help:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
8v?

Thanks guys, now the problem is that I only register 8v at the pin under the bonnet....any suggestions?
 

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Thanks guys, now the problem is that I only register 8v at the pin under the bonnet....any suggestions?
First off are you sure you have a 12v battery putting out 12v?

If so, I would apply a direct 12v test wire from G56/G243 + terminal on false firewall to pin 1 female socket in G151 and see if starter will actually work so you know starter is good.

If starter works then I would take out red stripe starter relay I10 and swap it out with engine ECU red stripe relay S12b located under inner black cover on top radiator support.

If starter pin 1 wire in G151 now gets 12v with key to start the I10 relay diode probably bad. If you are getting 12v hook G151 back up and try to start. If starter now works and engine will not start you need a new red stripe relay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Steve, I tried the relay switch/switch, still no joy, the puzzling part is the 8v from P1 / G151 at start attempt. I'm about to change the starter. Anything else to try
 

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Did you verify starter will work with a straight 12v to female socket 1 in G151? Did you verify you have 12v to + terminal G56 at false firewall?

Don't change starter, you need 12v check first. The 8v problem at pin 1 G151 needs to be solved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
yeah, we did that. Concerned with the consistent 8v from the male side at start. We'll try again at the starter tonight....thanks
 

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yeah, we did that. Concerned with the consistent 8v from the male side at start. We'll try again at the starter tonight....thanks
So starter works with 12v applied to socket 1 in G151? If so pull relay I10 and check socket 30 for 12v coming from battery via G56 terminal board on false firewall. Jump socket 30 to 87 and see if you still get 12v at pin 1 in G151.

You still haven't stated anything about your battery testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Negative sir. Let me run by you what I did. I took a piece of wire with an alligator clip on one end, clipped it to the underhood jump point, then stripped down the other end, and stuffed it into the FEMALE side of P1/G151. No difference with the normal relay, OR the ECU relay from under the hood. Starter maybe?
 

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Negative sir. Let me run by you what I did. I took a piece of wire with an alligator clip on one end, clipped it to the underhood jump point, then stripped down the other end, and stuffed it into the FEMALE side of P1/G151. No difference with the normal relay, OR the ECU relay from under the hood. Starter maybe?
But did you have 12v at G56 terminal that is the question?
 

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G56 terminal board is the + termimal from battery at false firewall. So to rule out starter good or bad you need to check small black wire from socket 1 G151 where it attaches to starter solenoid. But chances are with 12v applied directly to socket 1 that your starter solenoid is bad. It is part of starter.


But as to why you are only getting 8v at pin 1 G151 with relay engaged by key is a good question so verify you have 12v at pin 30 in relay I10 socket under dash.
 
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