[jeboniface]

91 164, 50K miles. Earlier this spring would occasionally be hard to start, run rough on idle and had to accelerate slowly off idle but with revs up it ran OK and other times it would start and run fine. The car sat for a week and then no start, only crank. Now it will fire and stumble, not take throttle. Clamped the fuel return line and it helped a little. Runs rough at idle but can rev and smooths out at about 2K RPM. In tank fuel line?

 

[Richard2]

How long have you owned it? When were the plugs changed last? Check the distributor cap and rotor? Also, check for air leaks between the air flow meter at the air filter and the air box...big hose, hose to idle actuator, rubber where idle actuator fits into air box, hoses around the oil separator, etc

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Test fuel pressure coming into fuel rail with tee fitting and gauge need about 35-40 for engine to run well.

Also with fuel hose in line in beer bottle check 15 second flow of 8oz.

To do this test remove fuel pump relay near coil (it is not red stripe one) Jumper pin 30 and pin 87 sockets in relay holder (they are pink and pin-white wire ones). Turn on key to get pump to run.

 

[jeboniface]

How long have you owned it? When were the plugs changed last? Check the distributor cap and rotor? Also, check for air leaks between the air flow meter at the air filter and the air box...big hose, hose to idle actuator, rubber where idle actuator fits into air box, hoses around the oil separator, etc

Owned car for three years now. Have not changed plugs, I park the car over the winter and put on about 3K miles a year. Already checked cap and rotor, minimal carbon on contacts. No air leaks on quick inspection but will go over again.

 

[jeboniface]

Test fuel pressure coming into fuel rail with tee fitting and gauge need about 35-40 for engine to run well.

Also with fuel hose in line in beer bottle check 15 second flow of 8oz.

To do this test remove fuel pump relay near coil (it is not red stripe one) Jumper pin 30 and pin 87 sockets in relay holder (they are pink and pin-white wire ones). Turn on key to get pump to run.

Checked fuel pressure. It was 40. It started briefly once today. Then just occasional fire when cranking. Checked, cleaned plugs, no difference. My daughter's 164 does the same thing but let it sit and cool and the it starts and runs fine for days to weeks only to do it again. That is how mine acted earlier this spring. Would running the diagnostic codes reveal anything?

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Checked fuel pressure. It was 40. It started briefly once today. Then just occasional fire when cranking. Checked, cleaned plugs, no difference. My daughter's 164 does the same thing but let it sit and cool and the it starts and runs fine for days to weeks only to do it again. That is how mine acted earlier this spring. Would running the diagnostic codes reveal anything?

Doubt codes will show any thing but you can try.

As for my problem like that it usually is bad ethanol gas. How old is gas? Did you use blue marine Stabil last fall? Red Stabil does not work with ethanol gas.

New product my son now using is in their Vespas scooters and he added some to his Maserati we just put clean injectors and a rehabed gas tank and ethanol gas is Starbrite Star*Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment see www.starbrite.com or www.startron.com he gets at moped shop but he said Walmart just started carrying it and way cheaper than expensive Blue Marine Stabil.

 

[jeboniface]

Doubt codes will show any thing but you can try.

As for my problem like that it usually is bad ethanol gas. How old is gas? Did you use blue marine Stabil last fall? Red Stabil does not work with ethanol gas.

New product my son now using is in their Vespas scooters and he added some to his Maserati we just put clean injectors and a rehabed gas tank and ethanol gas is Starbrite Star*Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment see Star brite - Manufacturer of Cleaners, Polishes, Oils, Brushes, Bungees and Tiedowns Products For Automobiles, Marine and RV's or Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment - HOME he gets at moped shop but he said Walmart just started carrying it and way cheaper than expensive Blue Marine Stabil.

This is getting frustrating. My daughters car now won't start. Same symptoms. We get gas from different stations so don't think it's gas related. Checked engine codes. Got 1222, idle adjustment actuator? is that throttle body switch? Connection OK. Can hear click at throttle off position so mechanically seems ok.
Also got 1214 code, coolant temp sensor, changed that and no difference.
I got car to start once today, idled rough, rev engine slow and would run smooth. Attempt quick rev and would stumble. It stalled when idling and again won't start, just cranks and almost starts with intermittent firing.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Code 1222 Idle Actuator (IAC) is for IAC located on back of intake plenum. It has electical connector and black hose going to big black corrugated hose. Usually IAC does not fail but does get dirty inside and rotory vane can stick. Also rubber mounting bushing going into intake plenum can leak air and needs to be wrapped with electrical tape to resize for a tight fit.

1214 code for coolant temp sensor which is hidden under thermostat hose and faces at a 45 degree angle towards fill cap for washer fluid tank.

If connection bad or corroded or wet from a/c valve moisture, etc car will be hard to start. Connector is a Bosch 2-wire connector like ones going to fuel injector. It has a rubber seal inside it and a rubber boot that can be missing or broken.

You pretty much have to remove R/F wheel and R/F inner fender liner to work on connector and inspect inside sensor connector area for pin corrosion.

 

[jeboniface]

Code 1222 Idle Actuator (IAC) is for IAC located on back of intake plenum. It has electical connector and black hose going to big black corrugated hose. Usually IAC does not fail but does get dirty inside and rotory vane can stick. Also rubber mounting bushing going into intake plenum can leak air and needs to be wrapped with electrical tape to resize for a tight fit.

1214 code for coolant temp sensor which is hidden under thermostat hose and faces at a 45 degree angle towards fill cap for washer fluid tank.

If connection bad or corroded or wet from a/c valve moisture, etc car will be hard to start. Connector is a Bosch 2-wire connector like ones going to fuel injector. It has a rubber seal inside it and a rubber boot that can be missing or broken.

You pretty much have to remove R/F wheel and R/F inner fender liner to work on connector and inspect inside sensor connector area for pin corrosion.

Is IAC on the back of the plenum towards the firewall? it is a bit loose. I"ll snug it up with some tape. I replaced the coolant temp sensor. Not a Bosch, the local AutoZone had one. I removed the upper radiator hose to get at it.
Did not make any difference.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Is IAC on the back of the plenum towards the firewall? it is a bit loose. I"ll snug it up with some tape. I replaced the coolant temp sensor. Not a Bosch, the local AutoZone had one. I removed the upper radiator hose to get at it.
Did not make any difference.

Yes it is on back of intake plenum and you will have to remove IAC to wrap tape around rubber bushing that plugs into intake.

What was resistance cold of that new temp sensor you installed. Should be about 3000kohm cold and 300 ohms hot. Did you inspect bosch connector terminal on wires for being locked in connector housing and having good clamping spring ends?

Have you pulled both 164 dizzy caps and checked for good spring loaded carbon buttons in center of caps and checked resistance of rotors for about 1.1 kohms?

 

[jeboniface]

Got the car to start. it was only running on about 3 to 4 cyl at idle but with gentle coaxing it would rev and then run on all 6 above 1500 RRM. Kept it running and then it began to idle ok. Went for a drive. At first it would stumble and miss with aggressive throttle but ran smooth with gentle acceleration. Eventually began to run smooth, idle and accelerate OK. Starts ok for now. We will see what happens in the morning. Interesting, I ran the codes again and the same two came up 1222 and 1214.
As for the IAC, with the car idling, if I wiggled it around I could hear a air leak but only if pushed way out of wack. No obvious leak there. I 'll check the ohms hot and cold.
Removed dizzy cap and cleaned contact points and checked spring but did not check ohms.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

It's an Alfa go figure why this can happen then go away!

Good luck in the a.m.

 

[ChazzyD]

Got the car to start. it was only running on about 3 to 4 cyl at idle but with gentle coaxing it would rev and then run on all 6 above 1500 RRM. Kept it running and then it began to idle ok. Went for a drive. At first it would stumble and miss with aggressive throttle but ran smooth with gentle acceleration. Eventually began to run smooth, idle and accelerate OK. Starts ok for now. We will see what happens in the morning. Interesting, I ran the codes again and the same two came up 1222 and 1214.
As for the IAC, with the car idling, if I wiggled it around I could hear a air leak but only if pushed way out of wack. No obvious leak there. I 'll check the ohms hot and cold.
Removed dizzy cap and cleaned contact points and checked spring but did not check ohms.

Sounds like a IAC leak IS present, I would remove it and wrap the small rubber donut that is the seal between it and the intake manifold. It will take you all of 5 minutes to do that. Clean the insides of the IAC with throttle body cleaner while at it. It is that important to remove ALL false air from entering this engine or it will never run right. Make sure the wires are not pushing out of the connector when you connect the IAC and the temp sensor so they are all getting a good connection. You may even need to clean the pins with contact cleaner at both. The best thing I have done to make my car run well consistently, is replace those Bosch style FI connectors (all of them) with new ones that seal well and keep moisture out. Keep at it, these cars are not that hard to make run well when you cover the basics (like making good connections, removing false air and making sure the fuel pressure/flow is good).
Charles