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I don't know. This is an odd issue. You have touched most of the bases. My AFM hose came loose in my porsche 944 and acted like what you described but I assume that you checked all your hoses already.
 

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with new pumps, new filter, fuel flow at the rail, good fuel pressure and good spark, the only thing you haven't confirmed is whether the injectors are firing.

Remove the bosch connector on one of the injectors (any one is fine, they batch fire, so just choose the easiest one to get to!)
...remember the bosch connectors have a little spring retainer clip that needs lifting out first....
1623228887706.png
now turn on the ignition (just KO, not crank) and see if you have battey voltage from either pin to a good ground.
yes? that's good

next test is if the injectors are pulsing:
for that you can make yourself some test bulb contraption, or buy the little noid light tester that JimG pointed out in post #22 above
clip it to that Bosch connector and crank the starter.
The noid light should pulse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
with new pumps, new filter, fuel flow at the rail, good fuel pressure and good spark, the only thing you haven't confirmed is whether the injectors are firing.

Remove the bosch connector on one of the injectors (any one is fine, they batch fire, so just choose the easiest one to get to!)
...remember the bosch connectors have a little spring retainer clip that needs lifting out first....
View attachment 1689916
now turn on the ignition (just KO, not crank) and see if you have battey voltage from either pin to a good ground.
yes? that's good

next test is if the injectors are pulsing:
for that you can make yourself some test bulb contraption, or buy the little noid light tester that JimG pointed out in post #22 above
clip it to that Bosch connector and crank the starter.
The noid light should pulse.
Thank you. I have tried the noid light. I get no light at all when cranking. I have not checked for voltage to the fuel injectors, but I will do that in the next hour. What does it mean if my injectors don't make the noid light come on? Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
If both pumps are running and it still won't start. Then you need to check spark and fuel injector fire.

This is a handy tool to check the injector fire. You can also make one out of a small bulb holder. Like one for a gauge light.

This makes checking for spark easy and prevents you from getting the crap shock out of you.


If you don't have one or both of these then your flywheel sensors have gone bad.
Thank you for the info.
have a noid light set and a spark plug tester like the one you showed. I am getting spark at the plugs, but the noid light will not come on or flash on any of the injectors. So the flywheel sensors being bad can cause the noid light to not come on, even though I have spark at the plugs? If so, can the flywheel sensors be tested? Thank you again. This has been crazy..haha
 

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If your year has reference sensors it could be one of them not giving you spark or could be a main computer issue in my opinion.
 

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I agree
ohming out a sensor is just a first step test (basically if you get 0 Ohms you know they are bust!)

here is how to test them for ohms if you want to just for the heck of it...it's easy enough:

another (imo, a better test, is to test them for signal. Normally you'd do this with an Oscilliscope - yep, I know, we all have one of those in the loft;) - but you can get an idea just with a voltmeter set to AC volts (rather than DC). Set tester to low range 10V AC or 20V AC or something
do the test on the same plug pins as you just did the ohms test (in the snippet jetronic document below) but this time crank over the starter motor......see if you get a signal.....you should perhaps get a reading of 1,5 - 2,0 Volts AC , something like that.

Or, as Jim G says, just buy 2 new sensors, they are old anyway
AutohausAZ does them too (it might not say alfa but PN is correct)
Bosch 0261210002 Crankshaft Position Sensor; At Bell Housing - BMW, Porsche | 12141708619 94460611500 W01331613778
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
If the upper flywheel sensor is bad. You will not get a signal to the injectors. I.E. No noid light.

Also I've had the flywheel sensors ohm out correctly and still be bad.

There probably 20 plus years old. I would replace both of them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CF5UGM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
Thank you. I will replace them both. I clicked on the link you sent for the part from Amazon, but when it pops up it shows it will not fit my car. Should I ignore this warning? Thank you again. Frustrating putting all these parts on (of course nice to have new parts anyway?). I live in the country, so there is no mechanics close to me that work on these (or even heard of an Alfa Romeo..haha).
1689999
 

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Yes. Ignore it. Those are the ones you want.

About every Euro car manufacturer used them. There are several different part numbers. All having to do with the length of the cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Yes. Ignore it. Those are the ones you want.

About every Euro car manufacturer used them. There are several different part numbers. All having to do with the length of the cable.
Ok. Thank you. I think I asked this before, but I can't find where I did. So I apologize if it was answered. But I am posting a picture of the new relay I purchased from a local parts store for the small fuel relay. I know it controls the fuel injectors, so I want to verify it is a correct one. I know the 87's are important. I am told I can't use one with an "a" next to one of the 87's. This new relay doesn't have the same configuration on the side. This is a picture of my old relay and the new one. Notice the old one has two 87's that connect. The new one has an 87 and an 87b that dont look like they do. Plus the 86 and 85 are opposite. Just hate to go through all this and find out its the relay..lol. Thanks again.
1690128
1690129
20210610_124902.jpg
20210610_124757.jpg
 

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Just stick the horn relay in its place if you want to be sure, the horn relay was originally a Sipea 0440 or Bosch 0332014125 as well!
(FYI: injection main relay, power windows relay, rear demister (hardtop) relay and the horn relay are the same)

your metal Bosch relay is probably OK anyway, they were good relays, pre-plastic.........try it in the horn slot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Just stick the horn relay in its place if you want to be sure, the horn relay was originally a Sipea 0440 or Bosch 0332014125 as well!
(FYI: injection main relay, power windows relay, rear demister (hardtop) relay and the horn relay are the same)

your metal Bosch relay is probably OK anyway, they were good relays, pre-plastic.........try it in the horn slot.
My turn relay has an 87a and an 87. I'm told that would not work. Is that info incorrect? Thank You
 

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unless you want your car to go on-off-on-off
why would a turn relay be suitable:)

keep it simple, methodical, it doesn't help to bounce around when diagnosing this type of problem.

you have a working horn, right?
then pull out the horn relay (fuse box, 1st relay, upper left) and stick it where the main relay belongs under the rear shelf............does the car start:
yes/no?

and then stick the old metal main relay into the horn socket......does horn work, yes/no?
if horn works, the old metal Bosch relay is OK, so put it back where it belongs near the big fuel relay.

then back to testing the sensors.
Have you tested them, as we asked you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
unless you want your car to go on-off-on-off
why would a turn relay be suitable:)

keep it simple, methodical, it doesn't help to bounce around when diagnosing this type of problem.

you have a working horn, right?
then pull out the horn relay (fuse box, 1st relay, upper left) and stick it where the main relay belongs under the rear shelf............does the car start:
yes/no?

and then stick the old metal main relay into the horn socket......does horn work, yes/no?
if horn works, the old metal Bosch relay is OK, so put it back where it belongs near the big fuel relay.

then back to testing the sensors.
Have you tested them, as we asked you?
[/QUO
I have not tested the flywheel sensors yet. I have been at the hospital with my mother most of the day. I tested the terminals for the larger relay, and then had to come to the hospital.
Im not sure what a turn relay even is..haha. I had only asked about the smaller relay configuration because it was something I could ask from the hospital.
unless you want your car to go on-off-on-off
why would a turn relay be suitable:)

keep it simple, methodical, it doesn't help to bounce around when diagnosing this type of problem.

you have a working horn, right?
then pull out the horn relay (fuse box, 1st relay, upper left) and stick it where the main relay belongs under the rear shelf............does the car start:
yes/no?

and then stick the old metal main relay into the horn socket......does horn work, yes/no?
if horn works, the old metal Bosch relay is OK, so put it back where it belongs near the big fuel relay.

then back to testing the sensors.
Have you tested them, as we asked you?
My horn does not work even if I hook 12v straight to the horn. Even though I do not have power windows, there was a relay in that spot as well. I tried all 3 relays and none of them change anything on starting the car. I tested the flywheel sensors and got 1.00 ohms in both of them when multimeter is set at 20k.
Any chance my bigger fuel relay could still be the culprit? My fuel pumps come on with that relay attached or the pins jumped to bypass the relay. But that relay does make a funky noise and sometimes stays on after turning key off. Of course bypassing it did nothing either though.
 

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Ok. Thank you. I think I asked this before, but I can't find where I did. So I apologize if it was answered. But I am posting a picture of the new relay I purchased from a local parts store for the small fuel relay. I know it controls the fuel injectors, so I want to verify it is a correct one. I know the 87's are important. I am told I can't use one with an "a" next to one of the 87's. This new relay doesn't have the same configuration on the side. This is a picture of my old relay and the new one. Notice the old one has two 87's that connect. The new one has an 87 and an 87b that dont look like they do. Plus the 86 and 85 are opposite. Just hate to go through all this and find out its the relay..lol. Thanks again.
I answered this in your other thread.

 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I answered this in your other thread.

Ok. Thanks. I couldn't find it. But I'm sure with trying 3 different relays including the new one, that would not be the issue..haha.
Maybe I fried my ecu? I did notice the flywheel sensor pigtail (the one for the black connector, not the gray one) is a bit broken near the connector. It still gets the 1.00v though. Sorry for all the questions my friends. I'm usually pretty good at working on cars. This has just got me stumped. Only thing I know that isn't working properly to cause all this is the noid light will not flash or come on. I do get 12v on the fuel injectors. Something is causing the noid light to not come on. This has to be my issue. I just can't figure out what else would cause that. I know you or someone mentioned I should just go ahead and replace the flywheel sensors anyway, but I really do hate to keep throwing parts at it that dont fix the issue. I didnt mind at first because it could use new fuel pumps and fuel filter anyway. But now this is getting strange..haha.
You guys are a blessing. Some day I hope to be helping others on here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
unless you want your car to go on-off-on-off
why would a turn relay be suitable:)

keep it simple, methodical, it doesn't help to bounce around when diagnosing this type of problem.

you have a working horn, right?
then pull out the horn relay (fuse box, 1st relay, upper left) and stick it where the main relay belongs under the rear shelf............does the car start:
yes/no?

and then stick the old metal main relay into the horn socket......does horn work, yes/no?
if horn works, the old metal Bosch relay is OK, so put it back where it belongs near the big fuel relay.

then back to testing the sensors.
Have you tested them, as we asked you?
[/QUO
unless you want your car to go on-off-on-off
why would a turn relay be suitable:)

keep it simple, methodical, it doesn't help to bounce around when diagnosing this type of problem.

you have a working horn, right?
then pull out the horn relay (fuse box, 1st relay, upper left) and stick it where the main relay belongs under the rear shelf............does the car start:
yes/no?

and then stick the old metal main relay into the horn socket......does horn work, yes/no?
if horn works, the old metal Bosch relay is OK, so put it back where it belongs near the big fuel relay.

then back to testing the sensors.
Have you tested them, as we asked you?
I answered this in your other thread.

Oops I forgot the picture of the broken connector for the flywheel sensor for the black one.
1690144
 

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If the engine is making ignition spark, can't one conclude that both flywheel sensors are working?
 

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good you got priorities right, your mum is more important than a car, that's for sure.

I think the relays are probably ok. If pumps come on with the relay, then it, the 8A fuel pump fuse, and the wiring to both pumps is good.

That the big relay makes a buzz is not a great sign, at least shouldn't happen and certainly shouldn't keep on after the key is turned off..........maybe squirt some electrical contact spray (not WD or anything) onto the socket contacts, perhaps there is a dirty contact.

If you got 1000 ohms on each sensor (1.0 on the 20kOhm scale), that is also within specs.
(as Jim G says it is not a guarentee they are good, but it is a first test..............when you get back and have more time, then test them as I suggested above with voltmeter set to AC Volts.....see if you get some signal)

You've now tested and get 12V at the injectors, that's good too.

Your problem is the injectors not being brought to ground to 'fire'.
That might be something simple (like that sensor, or the crumbly connector plug not contacting when you plug it together...check both sides of both connector plugs, that the pins are all there and visible and not pushed back.....remember that black connector sensor is the one that sends the signal to the ECU to pulse the injectors, the upper one)
....but could, unfortunately, also be something big, like the injection ECU has gone bad.


1. what voltage do you have on the negative side of coil to ground? (just key on)
2. have you cleaned the ground bundle on rear of head at the back
1623361411952.png

btw: keep your battery charged during the tests........this whole system requires 10,5-11,0 volts cranking, or the ECU won't work at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
If the engine is making ignition spark, can't one conclude that both flywheel sensors are working?
Thats what I was thinking to, but I feel like I'm running out of things to test. What would cause the fuel injectors to get 12v but not make the noid light flash or come on?
 
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