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Interesting. I don't think that mine does that. I think that it only comes to life after my car is running. Doesn't the main pump get a signal from the coil when the car is running for safety purposes just in case the car flips over and the motor stops the main pump will shut off? What you are saying is as long as the key is on the main pump will turn on. That does it with my series 2 spica setup but not with my series 3 bosch.
Both pump are wired together of the same pin of the relay.
 

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I was born near Cincinatti. I have family up there still, and we do family reunions often. In fact we are having one in a month, and I am hoping to take my car if I can get it running...ugh..haha

I disconnected the in tank fuel pump hose from the hard line in the trunk. I then wired a battery to the in tank fuel pump, and it seemed to be pumping gas into my can. I let it go that for about 10 seconds. The pump did sound a little weak at times while doing that, but the flow seemed the same. So I'm guessing the in tank pump is working. Even if a tiny bit weak sounding (maybe), the flow seems good enough to get to the main pump easily, unless it is supposed to come out hard and fast. Mine just flows steady.
Do I also assume the large fuel pump relay is good since I could jump it as you explained, and the car still does not start? I believe you stated, if it started when jumping the relay then the relay is bad. But it acted the same with relay jumped or connected up.
Maybe the next step is to test the main pump under the car? Can't imagine it being the fuel filter, because it's been running fine. And this all happened right after I did that basic fix on the hose. But I will take it off to see if it's coming through or dirty. Just lost on what to try next my friend..
Your advice is truly appreciated.
If both pumps are running and it still won't start. Then you need to check spark and fuel injector fire.

This is a handy tool to check the injector fire. You can also make one out of a small bulb holder. Like one for a gauge light.

This makes checking for spark easy and prevents you from getting the crap shock out of you.


If you don't have one or both of these then your flywheel sensors have gone bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
The in tank pump does not have a lot of PSI like the under tank one. Next step I would see if I am getting spark at the plugs.
Ok. Thanks again. It got a little to late to mess with it tonight. In the morning, I will go back and check spark and get a fuel pressure reading. I do know ever since I have been driving the car (even a trip from Florida to Tennessee), the FPR top hose has always been off and the hose was blocked off. The pipe portion on top of the FPR has always been left with no hose attached and no block on the pipe. Seemed to always run fine. I don't know if that is a big thing or not.
With your assistance and very helpful info, im sure I will figure it out tomorrow. Your guidance is extremely helpful my friend..
Have a blessed evening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
If both pumps are running and it still won't start. Then you need to check spark and fuel injector fire.

This is a handy tool to check the injector fire. You can also make one out of a small bulb holder. Like one for a gauge light.

This makes checking for spark easy and prevents you from getting the crap shock out of you.


If you don't have one or both of these then your flywheel sensors have gone bad.
Thank you my friend. I will be back at it tomorrow morning. I'm sure with all the excellent info and help you guys are providing, I will figure it out.
I will post in the morning.
Your advice is truly helpful and much appreciated.
Have a blessed evening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
The in tank pump does not have a lot of PSI like the under tank one. Next step I would see if I am getting spark at the plugs.
Good afternoon my friend. I checked for spark this morning, and it looked strong. I then unhooked the rubber fuel line going to the fuel rail. I placed the hose in a container and turned the car over. Fuel was coming out of the hose, but it did not look to have much pressure from what I could tell. I then hooked up the fuel pressure tester and cranked it, but the needle didnt move whatsoever. I even bypassed the large relay to make sure both pumps were running, but still no reading on the needle at all. I unhooked the pressure tester and again made sure fuel was coming out of the fuel hose, which it was but not a heavy or strong looking flow.
I took off the fuel filter (which I had replaced about 2 months ago), and fuel looked clean coming out.
Am I to assume the main fuel pump is bad even though humming? Or can I test it to be sure it is pumping properly? Power is obviously getting to it, because I can hear and feel it humming, but that doesn't mean its pumping properly.
Thank you again. I am getting somewhere at least..haha.
 

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You might have kinked or collapsed fuel line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
You might have kinked or collapsed fuel line.
Thank you for the advice. I checked my lines but don't see any kinks and they look in great shape. I put a new fuel filter just in case, but I am still not getting any reading on the fuel pressure tester. From what I can tell by looking, the same amount of flow seems to be coming out of the main under car fuel pump as it does right before the fuel rail (where I had the fuel pressure tester hooked up). Is there a way to test the pressure coming straight out of the hose between the under car fuel pump and the filter? Can I hook the tester there and get a reading? I just want to be sure the fuel pump is the culprit before just buying one. Of course I don't mind buying it if it is the culprit. I just don't know if what I'm seeing come out of the pump correct or not.
Thank you again.
 

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Sure. You can tee it in on the outflow side. Are you sure its running?

Alfa even had a special tool to check the outflow of the intank pump.

 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Sure. You can tee it in on the outflow side. Are you sure its running?

Alfa even had a special tool to check the outflow of the intank pump.

I can hear and feel it humming. I removed the line going from the pump into the filter, and when i bypass the bigger fuel relay to make sure the pumps are working, and I fuel comes out. It doesn't seem to be shooting out or have a hard flow....just a steady flow. I dont know if that flow is as strong as it is supposed to be though. Can i hook up my fuel pressure tester to the out side of the under car fuel pump to check proper pressure? If so, should the pressure reading be the same as it should be when it is hooked to where the fuel line connects to the fuel rail (where its normally checked)?
Thank you guys again. I feel like the solution is right around the corner. Thanks to this forumn and the wonderful people on here. Really!
 

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Have you pulled the supply fuel line in the engine compartment and checked for flow? I cannot recall but a certain volume of fuel is required. Best of luck and old FI systems can be trying
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Have you pulled the supply fuel line in the engine compartment and checked for flow? I cannot recall but a certain volume of fuel is required. Best of luck and old FI systems can be trying
Yes. Thank you. It does have what looks like the same amount of flow that comes out of the main pump under the car. I have not checked the pressure coming straight off the pump yet, because the whole day it's been storming. Right now it's sitting under its cover under the carport thingy...haha.
I almost want to just buy a main under car pump, but hate to find out that wasn't the issue. Im guessing if I dont get a reading on the fuel pressure gauge when I hook it straight to the hose coming off the main pump, the main pump is most likely the culprit?
Thanks again
 

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I'd remove the main pump and check for clogging at the inlet side. The filter is after the main pump. There is (supposed to be) a screen located before the in-tank pump to keep out rocks & chunks of rust. Was that screen present in your car? It is the canoe shaped thing at the bottom of this sketch.

Note: do not run the pump with no gas in it. The gas is used for cooling & lubrication. I suspect that running it 'dry' for more than a minute would be detrimental.

1685277
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
K
If both pumps are running and it still won't start. Then you need to check spark and fuel injector fire.

This is a handy tool to check the injector fire. You can also make one out of a small bulb holder. Like one for a gauge light.

This makes checking for spark easy and prevents you from getting the crap shock out of you.


If you don't have one or both of these then your flywheel sensors have gone bad.
Sorry for the late post. I have been out of state dealing with a family emergency.

Update: I went ahead and replaced both fuel pumps and the fuel filter with new ones I ordered. I don't know if the wires on the under car fuel pump goes on a certain way or not. On the under car fuel pump, one has a little larger post than the other. The one I took out had same size posts. How do I know which one goes where? There is no markings on the pump to inform me. I hooked it up with the hopes I got it correct, and I can hear it running when I bypass the relay. But the car still don't start. Could I have the wires on incorrect? It's just a 50/50 shot if so..haha. Thank you so much.
 

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There should be a small + down by the terminals on the pump itself. I think that it will spin opposite if it is hooked up wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
There should be a small + down by the terminals on the pump itself. I think that it will spin opposite if it is hooked up wrong.
Thank you. I did have it backwards..haha. I fixed that and now have about 37 lbs of fuel pressure on the gauge I have hooked to the fuel hose right before the fuel rail. I also checked it right before and after the fuel filter to be sure.
It not starts but dies instantly. As soon as it catches, it dies. Both fuel pumps and the fuel filter are brand new and I now have the fuel pressure. I also have spark at all 4 plugs.
I did notice the screen on my in tank fuel pump was not on it when I raised it up some out a bit out of the tank. I then took it all the way out and spent much time trying to find the screen with a grabber. I could never find it. I know it needs a screen on it, but could this be a legitimate reason of it starting then dying instantly? Seems like that would not cause it but I can't figure it out.
I even bypassed the fuel pumps with jumping the relay just to make sure.

Another thing. When I crimped the line going to the bottom of the FPR, the fuel pressure went up to about 95psi. When I uncrimp it, the pressure is at about 37psi.
Thank you and everyone again for all the kindness and assistance. Very cool forum.
 

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The missing filter screen will not make your car start and die. Check all your hoses under the hood to make sure nothing has come loose. If the AFM hose is loose it might do that. Not sure if clogged injectors would cause this issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
The missing filter screen will not make your car start and die. Check all your hoses under the hood to make sure nothing has come loose. If the AFM hose is loose it might do that. Not sure if clogged injectors would cause this issue.
Well I have now replaced both fuel pumps and fuel filter. I am.now getting the proper fuel pressure right before the injectors, and I am getting spark to all 4 spark plugs. The car starts but still immediately dies. It don't even stay running for over a second. Any more suggestions please? Very confusing. Thank you once again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Maybe next step is to check to see if your regulator has a blown diaphram.
Would a bad FPR cause this kind of issue? All this happened right after I replaced a fuel hose to the in tank fuel pump due to a cut in it. Also the vapor tank was leaking so I patched it up (with advice from the wonderful people on this forum). I ordered another one but it hasn't arrived yet. Before all this, it was running fine.
Oh yea, I did find out the new in tank fuel pump lost its screen inside the tank. Could that have anything to do with it?
To recap, it has good fuel pressure and spark at all 4 plugs. It has both new fuel pumps and new fuel filter. Thanks again. I appreciate all the help and advice from this forum.
 
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