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Discussion Starter #1
Ok all, this is not BMW bashing as in other threads, but looking for real seat of the pants comparison. I've got a friend with an 81 sc and brags all day about it vs my 84 gtv6. Now, I don't own a porsche, but have always been a fan, and know they are incredibly engineered vehicles.

But, in the spirit of my car wish list, whats the comparo between cars?

Especially interested if someone has both!
 

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If your into cars that look like slugs and sound terrible, go for it. Hey my old man was working on a 911 older style one i dont know the models, and it was full of rust on the floor, so not that well made. Just my opinion.
 

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An Alfa person not liking a Porsche because of rust on the floor. My, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

911SC is a bulletproof old slug of a car. Fast, fairly reliable, cheap, there are tons of them out there with gobs of upgrades (updating and backdating) available.

But, think about how many 911s you see per day vs the number of GTV6s. That pretty much settles the argument in my book.

I'd say the 911 would be the performer between the two....but the Alfa would be the looker and of course that Italian wail of an engine sound. The Porsche sounds good sure, but it can't match the sweet Alfa V6.
 

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Had Porsche solved the 911's oversteer problems by 1981? It may be faster in the right hands, but do you have the right hands to throttle-steer a rear-engined car?
 

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I've driven an 84 and an 86 911. I felt cramped in those cars and I'm only 6ft tall. The shift linkage on those model years was worse than the GTV-6 and I much prefer the Alfa's sound. However I could see how many people would prefer the Porsche. Stock for stock it's a better performer and it does have a stellar race history.
 

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Had Porsche solved the 911's oversteer problems by 1981? It may be faster in the right hands, but do you have the right hands to throttle-steer a rear-engined car?
That right there sums it up...
You're comparing a car with a notoriously heavy rear weight bias to a car with close to 50/50 weight distribution. In the hands of an expert driver, I'm *guessing* the Porsche could be made to outperform the GTV-6. Put in the hands of the rest of us mortals, I'm guessing the GTV-6 would be easier to drive at the limit, and would be therefore be the faster of the two. Not to mention, it would be more fun and confidence inspiring at the limit, instead of sweating though each turn unsure if the car is going to come around and throw you off the road/track!

Find a track in your area and invite your friend to a shootout. Let us know which one of you ends up needing bodywork at the end of the day...;)
 

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Funny thing, growing up I was never a 911 fan but have become one in the past few years. I've owned one Porsche in my life and one BMW and respect them quite a bit but they never gave me the pleasure that my Alfa's have. I had a boss who had a 1983 911SC (back in 1990) and let me drive it to pick up my first Alfa (1987 Milano Gold 2.5 5 Speed) and while it was fast, and fun and had the "Chick Appeal" I perfer the Alfa. He then traded for a 78 Turbo which I didn't get to drive and probably for the better since he smacked a gaurd rail a month or so into ownership! So I guess my point is if you're Hans Stuck a 911 is probably the better weapon but if you're me and have a modecum of skill the GTV6 will probably be the better car. For a better comparison I feel you should pit a 944 and GTV6, they came out the same year and have the same front engine, rear drive layout. :)
 

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Hmmm.....I love my GTV6, but I might swap it for a good 911SC. The rear suspension was pretty well sorted when it arrived. It had what, 180 or 200HP? I'd wager that in the dry, it would eat a GTV6 for lunch, driven with moderate skill. Now if it started to rain, I'd be feeling pretty smug in the GTV6!
 

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in the 80's had i had an '81 GTV6, eventually sold it to help college tuition costs in '92. observations :

1. glorious engine note
2. balanced chassis
3. balky gear change
4. '70s feel to the interior design, materials, and fit & finish
5. previous owner was Primitive Pete !! once the really bad issues from that & regular maintainance were taken care of, it was quite reliable
6. burned more oil than any other vehicle i have ever owned before or since
7. italian flair & nobody else around had one
8. friends and acquaintances question your sanity

by chance, i raced a '80s SC through the Santa Monica mountains for quite a distance. after we finished and talked to each other, it turned out we both autocrossed, and both cars were stock. observations :

1. he had more torque coming out of the corners.
2. braking was about equal
3. i seemed to carry a little more speed through the apexes.
4. after about 20 minutes of no-holds-barred, flat out canyon strafing, we were nose to tail !! he was quite surprised.

after college, i got my current 73 GTV, and my best friend countered with a 911sc. during a track day a Willow Springs, i had the chance to pilot the thing for a while. note, that he changed the suspension to Euro ride height and alignment. observations :

1. lap times were surprisingly close to the modern cars we brought along ( NSX, S2000, WRX, early '90s M3 )
2. engine sound and flat torque curve not very exiting, but was effective
3. tall gearing. probably why it was only barely faster in the canyons than my GTV6.
4. gear change at least as bad as my 81 GTV6
5. no oversteer issues. actually it drove quite drama free. boring in fact ( unlike the S2000, which i spun more than once :rolleyes: - but it was a fun little rocket ).
6. interior feels more like a classic private plane than a car
7. just as quirky, but in different ways, than the GTV6
8. burnt oil smells through the heater air ( engine's air cooled, remember )

the 911s are known to be very long lived, structurally and mechanically. later ones were full body galvanized, so rust very little. parts and service are very expensive, but more plentiful.

the GTV6 has a wonderfully balanced chassis, especially after a little tweaking. GTV6 has much more room in the back seat. the sound from the 2.5 is soul stirring . . . only an italian car can give you chills like that from the engine note alone. some parts are getting scarce. you don't see one in every parking lot . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
discussion is what I surmised. up to '83, the 911sc had a 3.0 with 180bhp. then in 84 was bumped up to a 3.2 with 207 bhp.

true the gtv6 is much more unique...I still get the 'what is that' comment regularly and everyone knows the 911. also so interested as folks have upgraded body styles with older engine and chassis, which doesn't seem feasible on any other cars.

Haven't run the backroads with my buddies sc, but think I can keep on his tail. will let you know and do know he'll gain more respect for alfas after we're done!

true the alfa engine sounds head and shoulders above the 911, is more unique, better body and weight distribution, but the 911 will get there faster.
 

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I think its is pretty clear that a 911 will eat a GTV6 on a like for like comparison. Its not really a fair comparison as a 911 was always a much more expensive car to start with.

As somebody said, GTV6 v 944 is a fairer comparison and the Alfa has a fighting chance then (I'd call that one 50/50, given I'm as biased as buggery, that's probably an objective win to the Porsche).

Anyway, just because it is BETTER, doesn't mean everybody has to like it.

I'm sure you could build your GTV6 to beat a standard 911SC...
 

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I thought that when the 944 was introduced it was quicker on some tracks then the 911 of the same year. The result was complaints from the 'true porsche' owners and the situation was 'rectified' quickly. :rolleyes:

Maybe that's just an old wives tale (or maybe I've mixed a story about the 928 with the 944)? But if its true that would make the GTV6 a close competitor with an equal vintage 911 as I think the Alfa kept pace with the 944... :D:D
 

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Echo,

I think only on the tightest of tight tracks would a 944 give a 911 SC a run for its money. Acceleration, braking, and even cornering power is greater in the 911SC.
 

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Remember that the design brief for the Alfetta/GTV 6 was that it seat four adults comfortably. Comparing it to the 911 and the 944, where the back seats are for show only, is an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you want a two-seater, buy a two-seater. A better match is the BMW 325i or the Audi GT Coupe of the time.
 

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Remember that the design brief for the Alfetta/GTV 6 was that it seat four adults comfortably. Comparing it to the 911 and the 944, where the back seats are for show only, is an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you want a two-seater, buy a two-seater. A better match is the BMW 325i or the Audi GT Coupe of the time.
The 924 and the Alfetta were direct competitors as were the 944/GTV-6 both having front engine/rear transaxle, 2+2 layouts.
Make no mistake, I too have read the press reviews of the day about back seat space, but it just isn't true.:rolleyes: I recently drove around 2 passengers in my Alfetta coupe, and the poor guy in back was scrunched up like a ball of yarn. He's only 5'8" and maybe 140lbs, and still I was apologizing the entire trip! Do adults fit back there? Yes, are the comfortable? No.
I absolutely cannot fit a fourth person in the car if I'm driving - as I need the seat back slanted to the point of touching the leading edge of the rear seat cushion just to fit myself in the front!
 

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And what of the 911? All four of you fit comfortably in there? :D

Seriuosly, the 924/944 have much less interior room and consequently a smaller frontal area making them (at least to me) more akin to two-seater sports cars and less like four-seater GT cars.

Perhaps the best way to say it is that the GTV 6 fits between the 944 and the 325i in its ability to seat four people comfortably.
 

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But I guess the topic was Porsche vs. Alfa to keep the BMW out of the equation since we have hashed that quite a bit. The one Porsche I have owned was a 1988 928S4 and those backs seats were a tini bit bigger than the 944 but either one is a pain for any adult for more than a few blocks. My GTV6 is bigger and one could probably make it much farther before wanting to jump out, not much mind you.
 

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I think you miss understood, and i quote myself, 'If your into cars that look like slugs and sound terrible' - this was my reason.
I was refering to this statement..."911 older style one i dont know the models, and it was full of rust on the floor, so not that well made."
 

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I was refering to this statement..."911 older style one i dont know the models, and it was full of rust on the floor, so not that well made."
And that statement was in response to, '' I don't own a porsche, but have always been a fan, and know they are incredibly engineered vehicles.'' So yes you did misunderstand. But whatever :)
 
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