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Discussion Starter #1
Searches have this procedure all over the lot. This is NOT a BOSCH system. I have a SPICA system with a three hole starter and no lift. I'm looking to change out my starter and before I remove the air filter housing... I know about the shoulders bolts etc. My vision is to remove the air filter and reach down to undo the three bolts and obvious electrical connections at the solenoid. Am I missing something? I don't know if the existing starter has the bracket that attaches to the motor mount. The new one will as it is a 1HP starter. Any advise appreciated. Yes, I know to disconnect the battery. Uncle
 

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nope, you got it. Air cleaner off, and then a 13mm universal 1/4 inch drive with a 10 or so inch extension, and 13, 14 and ?17? mm open end wrench-- I dont think yours has the extra mount on the back.

Should take 20 minutes or so to remove if the extra mount is not present.
 

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I don't know if the existing starter has the bracket that attaches to the motor mount. The new one will as it is a 1HP starter.
As goats noted, you have the procedure well summarized. But his 20 minute estimate may be optimistic if you have to deal with the brace between the starter and motor mount. My memory is a bit vague on what interfered with what, but I recall having to remove the R motor mount to gain enough clearance to slide the brace off the two studs that attach it to the starter. Perhaps your experience will be different.

When you wrote: "new one will as it is a 1HP starter", are you saying that the old starter was NOT a 1.1 hp? Since your Alfa is a '73, it would have come with the .7 hp. I point this out because you don't want to put a 1.1 hp into a car that came with a .7 hp; the # of teeth on the ring gear is different, so the starter pinion won't mesh quite right.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
nope, you got it. Air cleaner off, and then a 13mm universal 1/4 inch drive with a 10 or so inch extension, and 13, 14 and ?17? mm open end wrench-- I dont think yours has the extra mount on the back.

Should take 20 minutes or so to remove if the extra mount is not present.
thanks .. I'll post a DYIer ... the myriad of combinations and ring gears and removal procedures probably warrants a sticky and chapters on each model. the mysteries of tooth count, spacers, shoulder bolts and hole numbers and HP ratings probably need to be put into a spread sheet. It's a real cluster sorting through the Bosch and Spica and carb data and then there are the amalgams of mixes.. yikes. It's a miracle these cars start at all when folks start swapping out this crap..
 

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the myriad of combinations and ring gears and removal procedures probably warrants a sticky and chapters on each model. the mysteries of tooth count, spacers, shoulder bolts and hole numbers and HP ratings probably need to be put into a spread sheet.
You can find that spreadsheet in post #3 in the thread at:

Starters and Ring Gears
 

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Discussion Starter #6
As goats noted, you have the procedure well summarized. But his 20 minute estimate may be optimistic if you have to deal with the brace between the starter and motor mount. My memory is a bit vague on what interfered with what, but I recall having to remove the R motor mount to gain enough clearance to slide the brace off the two studs that attach it to the starter. Perhaps your experience will be different.

When you wrote: "new one will as it is a 1HP starter", are you saying that the old starter was NOT a 1.1 hp? Since your Alfa is a '73, it would have come with the .7 hp. I point this out because you don't want to put a 1.1 hp into a car that came with a .7 hp; the # of teeth on the ring gear is different, so the starter pinion won't mesh quite right.

Jay, you see where I am going with my frustration over the DETAILS... I haven't got the old starter out but I do have a "new rebuilt one"' one in hand and it is a Bosch 0-001-311-110 with what appears to be a 9 tooth drive / 3 hole mount / and 2 extended studs on the ***-end for a bracket.. I was assuming this to be the beefier starter rather than the .7 HP one which I SUSPECT is in there now and that a swap would be seamless. ... or maybe not?
 

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That 0-001-311-110 is definitely a 1.1 hp, as per George Willett's list. It is intended for a 131 tooth ring gear. But if your '73 still has its original starter and ring gear, then A) it's a 130 tooth RG and B) your '73 doesn't have the parts that form the brace between the 1.1 hp starter and the R motor mount.

Dunno what to tell you, other than to consider just having your .7 hp starter rebuilt.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That's the pisssser I was expecting when I asked .... so does anyone know why ALFA upgraded the starter to 1.1 HP and added one more tooth to the ring gear to assure the whole maintenance depot got everything screwed in the end?. I was so looking forward to UPGRADING.. PSHAW! The brace was the only pebble in the road I had hoped to hurdle. Thanks Jay.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That 0-001-311-110 is definitely a 1.1 hp, as per George Willett's list. It is intended for a 131 tooth ring gear. But if your '73 still has its original starter and ring gear, then A) it's a 130 tooth RG and B) your '73 doesn't have the parts that form the brace between the 1.1 hp starter and the R motor mount.

Dunno what to tell you, other than to consider just having your .7 hp starter rebuilt.
But then Geo W says '''''''The 001-311-110 starter will work on the 130 tooth flywheel, but without the rear brace it will break the bell housing, as it is much heavier than the earlier starters. """ with a caveat to use the bracket on the MM... I wonder how he came to that conclusion? .. I'm not going there .
 

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my advice, for what it is worth, is to count the number of teeth on your ring gear. Then you will know for certain what can fit and what cant.
 

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Maybe someone can confirm this - I think an S4 starter is a good replacement for the 72-74 starter. It is the smaller, lighter, more powerful permanent magnet, gear reduction type.
 

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Although you already have a rebuilt starter, I would strongly recommend that you put in a gear reduction starter. I did in 2014 and it was maybe the best improvement I've made to my '73 Spider in my 46 years of ownership. The engine spins so much faster that it is a revelation. I bought mine from Performatek. It looks like they are still around although their web site isn't the best. It's not cheap but it's worth every dollar. Sell your rebuilt Bosch on eBay and don't look back.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Although you already have a rebuilt starter, I would strongly recommend that you put in a gear reduction starter. I did in 2014 and it was maybe the best improvement I've made to my '73 Spider in my 46 years of ownership. The engine spins so much faster that it is a revelation. I bought mine from Performatek. It looks like they are still around although their web site isn't the best. It's not cheap but it's worth every dollar. Sell your rebuilt Bosch on eBay and don't look back.
He is a member of my club so I'll check it out... Thanks.. The rebuilt 1.1Hp starter is a snag on E-bay and has a BOSCH REBUILD sticker on it.. It's ink marked for a '73..... lots of intrigue but it was cheap

my advice, for what it is worth, is to count the number of teeth on your ring gear. Then you will know for certain what can fit and what cant.
Easier said than done, installed IMHO. I know the 131 has a groove in the face of the ring gear for just that reason. This car is the least suspect to have any fiddling around in this area from past records and maintenance practices.. 75000 miles and still has the original exhaust, for example. Thanks for the positive thought


Maybe someone can confirm this - I think an S4 starter is a good replacement for the 72-74 starter. It is the smaller, lighter, more powerful permanent magnet, gear reduction type.
The intrigue gets deeper..... I'm leaning to just pull the galldarned thing and rebuild it.. Then I know what I have. The car starts after a bit of coaxing in 40F after sitting for 3 weeks (winter you know). We in the NE have had chances to exercise the "winter storage" to keep the tires round and circulate the fluids since the roads are pretty clean and we've had only two 2' snow falls with lots of rain.
The starter has been SLOOOOOOW as molasses on even a good day but to my surprise is enough to fire it up .. Any other car I've owned that spun this slow, I would expect to be DOA. The battery is 2 years old. When I crank the warning lights dim by like half. This is why I think I have a starter on it's last legs... So now you all have the rest of the story. Thank you and keep your cards and letters coming. As we used to say, no idea is a bad idea until proven otherwise.
 

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Maybe someone can confirm this - I think an S4 starter is a good replacement for the 72-74 starter. It is the smaller, lighter, more powerful permanent magnet, gear reduction type.
Makes sense. According to George Willett's chart (see post #5), Alfa went back to 130 tooth RG's in '90 - '94. Those starters have p/n 011-108-081.

goats said:
my advice, for what it is worth, is to count the number of teeth on your ring gear. Then you will know for certain what can fit and what cant.
As divotandtralee says, doing this through the starter hole while you turn the engine would be a challenge. Heck, keeping track of 130 teeth on a loose flywheel is hard enough. If divotandtralee's Alfa is a '73 and it has a 001-211-987 starter, the odds are awfully good that it still has its original 130 tooth RG.
 

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heres how I do it in-situ -- not that hard
remove starter ; paint yellow dot on one tooth and then with a screwdriver and spark plugs out, lever the ring gear one tooth at a time and count em. Every 10 put another yellow paint dot on the tooth. paint once, recount the second time. 10 minute job tops. That way you KNOW how what the ring gear is.
 

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Yes, but wouldn't all those yellow dots imbalance your flywheel unless you make them all exactly the same size? :giggle:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Although you already have a rebuilt starter, I would strongly recommend that you put in a gear reduction starter. I did in 2014 and it was maybe the best improvement I've made to my '73 Spider in my 46 years of ownership. The engine spins so much faster that it is a revelation. I bought mine from Performatek. It looks like they are still around although their web site isn't the best. It's not cheap but it's worth every dollar. Sell your rebuilt Bosch on eBay and don't look back.
I'm taking the plunge with the Denso unit from Performatek ($295) .. Seems like there is some sorting ahead on the electrical connections. I just ordered it today. I don't want to fry anything so can you send me a pencil drawing of the wiring as you have it? My Bosch is the .7Hp on there now and it has the battery cable and a heavy red wire mated with it on the TOP lug of the solenoid and only the internal built in cable on the bottom one with no external loom cables on it...the the red and black on a spade connection at 3 o'clock on the solenoid are . Black to Cold start solenoid and red to ignition switch . The red one to the ignition switch is a new one that probably replaced a black one in the diagram as there is a new rigged switch relay in line and PO's probably didn't do the colors right. . My e-mail is R L esn at com cast dot net. Thanks for your reply
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I chatted with Dean Russell this Am about the subject. His take was the DEALERS made it common practice to slap in the 1.1 HP starters on the '72-'74 cars and never did anything else with no concern about RG's... He had seen many with this change and WITHOUT the bracket and no cracked bellhousing. And so it goes.....
 

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You are still better off with the Denso starter. The smaller size and lighter weight will make it easier to remove/replace in the future and it will also spin your motors faster than the 1.! HP
 

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You are still better off with the Denso starter. The smaller size and lighter weight will make it easier to remove/replace in the future and it will also spin your motors faster than the 1.! HP
I agree. Plus, despite Dean Russell's anecdotal information, mating a starter designed for a 131 tooth RG against a 130 tooth RG would bother me. And Alfa wouldn't have added that brace unless they had a reason - the 1.1 hp starter is certainly more massive than the .7's.
 
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