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Discussion Starter #1
I am deep into restoring my 1948 Alfa 6C 2500SS Touring coupe #915630. We are not sure about the originality of the dashbord panel located on the right side of the steering column under a small door on the dash. This little panel has a variety of switches and lights on it. A previous owner may have added a few non-original items and we want to bring the car back to factory specs.

Does anyone have a drawing or photo showing what this origonal dash panel looks like? Apparently when you drive the car you have to open the little door that covers up the little dash panel.
 

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6C Dashboard Controls

Fred,

I am attaching some photos of a few Touring dash control boxes.
In the first one, which is the clearest, you can see the starter button top left. I think the right bottom knob is a cigarette lighter. The control above it doesn’t look original and could be a lamp diming rheostat.
The codes for the alpha markings for my car and the Freccia d’Oro models are as follows.

C = Hand Throttle
P = Choke
T = Windscreen Wipers
I = Dash Lights
L = Interior Lights
S = Lamp Flash/Horn Sound select for the Horn button mode of operation
V = Ventilation Flap Opening

The only Touring car I know has the earlier wooden dashboard with the controls arranged around the steering wheel.

Jim
 

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More photos

Fred,

I found a couple more photos but they don't help to establish the switches purpose and position.

Also the first photo above, the metal starter button looks unoriginal and the switch bodies appear to have been upgraded as the bezels which hold them in are all different. My guess on the cigarette lighter is a bit off as well. The knob appears to have a blue circle with a dash through it. Like the male symbol without the arrow head. Could be the dash lights though they should have a "I" symbol.

It can't be a "Q" because Q in the wiring diagram is the ignition switch which is to the right of the box on the dash board. It is not a symbol I have seen before in an Alfa. Anyway here are more photos.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the help and photos. I can see that every car shown is different. I am attaching a photo of my dash before the start of restoration. The knobs with the colored plastic appear to be original and correct. The one at the top center does not.

Does anyone know what the various letters on the knobs mean? This will help a lot in getting the wiring to work right.
 

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The AROC USA Tech Library seems to have a copy of the 6C 2500 2nd Series Owner's manual Pub. #493, dated 07/49. This manual probably shows what the knobs and switches are for -- so, you may want to contact the Librarian (Jim Neill aka Papajam -- contact info on the page listed above) to see if it's available in electronic format.
 

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6C Dashboard Controls Lettering

Fred,

You seem to be skeptical of useful advice. Here are the Italian descriptions of the control markings I posted in my first reply to your query. I have added some literal English translations. With a little imagination they can be understood. I believe the same markings were used in many Alfas of the 30s and 40s from a variety of coachbuilders.

(C) = Pomello per la regolazione dell’accelerarore - Knob for the regulation of the accelerator (Hand Throttle). Turns a coarse thread which pulls a cable attached to the accelerator linkage. Quite dangerous as it has no quick release.
(P) = Pomello del dispositivo di Partenza del carburatore – Knob of the device of departure of the carburetor. Attached to the choke mixture levers.
(T) = Interruttori per Tergicristallo - Switches for windshield wiper. Many cars had a switch for each wiper motor. Left and right.
(I) = Iterruttore per le lampadine del quadro - Switch for the light bulbs of the picture, the 4 dash lamps. There are 2 in the Tachometer and 2 in the Speedometor. They had black 8 amp (fine) wires feeding them.
(L) = Iterruttore per plafoniere - Switch for (ceiling) cabin lights
(S) = Commutatore per Segnalazioni acustiche o laminose - Selector for acoustic or luminous signals
(V) = Pomello per sportelli d’aerazione - Knob for aeration doors. Cabin Ventilation

There should be a commutator type ignition switch, which is activated when you insert the key. It also switches on the parking lights when you turn the key to the first position and the headlamps when you turn it to the second position.

There should also be a starter button. Some of them were clear Perspex and had a generator charge light in them, which glows when the generator is not charging.

The two small warning lamp fittings in the dash above your controls box varied for different models.

One was a warning for low brake fluid. When the float on the fluid reservoir sinks to its lowest point it closes a contact on the dash lamp, which glows blue.

The other one was connected to the trafficator/direction indicator in some models. I have also seen it connected to the high beam headlamp circuit in some cars.

If your wiring loom is still intact you may be able to trace the wiring between switches and devices.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
6C 2500SS Touring Dasboard Layout

Jim,
I truly appreciate all the excellent input. I just overlooked the text in your first message. As I age my brain works less perfectly.
I travelled to the restoration shop yesterday and collected the small dash panel. The holes seem to be original with none added. I will now dig out all the switches and knobs and try to match up the hardware with the holes and your photos. Hopefull I have most everything needed to restore the car to factory layout. There may be a couple knobs that I need.
Fred
 

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Instrument Lighting question

Fred,

I need some advice from you on your switchgear.

There are usually 3 x 2pole switches (2 terminals on the back, ON/OFF, pull/push).

2 of them are for the left and right windscreen wiper motors. (T on the knob)
1 of them is for the interior lights (L on the knob)

There are also 2 x 3 pole switches (3 terminals on the back, 1 ON/ 2 ON, push/pull)
One of them (S on the knob) is for the steering wheel Hub Button mode. In one position the horns sound when the Hub Button is pushed. In the out position the high beam flashes when the Hub Button is pushed.
The other 3 pole switch (I on the knob) is for the dash lighting. There are two lamps in each instrument connected with thin black bound 8 amp wires.
I have not been able to confirm how this switch should work or how it was wired. I suspect that it is there to switch the dash lights from bright to dim operation. That would mean that the lights are actually switched on elsewhere in the system. It is most likely they come on when the parking lights are turned on.
That part of my wiring had been messed with so I have never been sure how they are supposed to work. There would have to be a resistor in the low light circuit to dim all four instrument lights but I have never found one.

The wiring diagrams I have seen do not show this system.

In your control box the right bottom switch knob appears to have an L (interior lighting) on it. Is it a 2 pole switch?

The switch to the left of it has a symbol on it. A rectangle with a dash through the top left corner. It is similar to the electrical engineering symbol for a rheostat or variable resistor. What is attached to that knob? Do you know what it was connected to or what it is for? Does it have fine black wire attached?

You should have trafficator switch on the left centre of the dash between the instruments and a starter button adjacent to it in the right centre of the dash.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
6C 2500SS Dashboard Layout

Jim,
I have to travel to the restoration shop before I can hold the switches in my hand. I will address your issues after I get there, hopefully this week. I plan to diagram my dash with the switches and wiring to give input to the shop.
Fred
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Alfa 6C 2500SS dash switches

Jim,
I finally got to the restoration shop to check their proposed paint color and get the dash switches. Unfortunately they were not able to find the switches. After a half hour of searching they assigned the shop supervisor to look in another area as soon as he finishes a hot job. This will probably be Monday. I am sorry but I really need to get the switches and respond to you.
Fred
 

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6C Dash Lights

Hi Fred,
I think I have figured out my dash lighting. If the wiring hadn’t been changed and the switch messed around with it might have been more obvious.
The three pole switch receives power when the parking/headlights are turned on.
With the switch pushed in the second pole receives that power and is connected to one lamp in each instrument (one in the speedo and one in the tachometer).
With the switch pulled out the second and the third poles receive power. The third pole is connected to second set of lamps, one in each instrument. So all four lamps come on and the instruments are at their brightest. It’s quite simple once you understand it.
None of the wiring diagrams I have seen for the 6C shows that scheme so it has been a bit of a mystery. After laying out my chopped up wiring loom and matching the cut marks I think I have figured out how it was connected.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Dash

Jim,
I finally collected all my dash switches and am still confused. To answer your questions of 10/8:
1. The switch marked 'L' on the lower right of my dash is a 2-pole switch.
2. The switch with the rectangle/slash on it is also a 2-pole switch. There is a black wire on one terminal and cream wire on the other. The insulation on the black wire looks original and the cream wire has more modern looking plastic insulation. The black wire goes to a terminal block but the cream wire is disconnected. The switch looks original except for the emblem but the cream wire does not. (Could this be a kill switch to deter theft?)

My car has only one 3-pole switch. The one switch without an emblem on the knob is a different type of switch body. The plastic knob looks original however. The switch may not be original to the car. Maybe a second 3-pole switch was in that location.

The control for the throttle is not a pull-push cable. It is a rotary knob that clicks into discrete positions when you turn it. My guess is that it adjusts the idle speed slightly when you rotate it. This could be a screw thread inside the housing that pulls slightly on a cable to the throttle linkage. It probably adjusts only the idle stop and therefore would not be dangerous. This control knob is not original to the car so I do not know what Alfa used. If they used a simple push-pull cable that could be dangerous if used as a "cruise control".

Another confusion on my car is the 2 wiper switches. My car has only one wiper motor. I suspect the motor was retrofitted later and the two switches retained.
 

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Dash wiring etc.

Fred,

Thanks for the details of your dash switches. I am afraid I may be on the wrong track with my dash lamp analysis.

I am talking to a 6C 2500 GT owner who has restored an identical model to mine. Hopefully he can clear up the question of the correct switches how they should be connected.

You can see the correct original hand throttle knob in some of the photos I posted. It is the bigger one with the letter "C" on the face. I am checking with a someone in UK who may have a mold for it and has remade similar knobs.


I have attached some photos of the Magneti Mirelli 12 VOLTA, TG, 241A, 5DO, Wiper motors fitted to my car for your reference.

They are mounted in a bracket welded to the upper bulkhead and connect to the wiper arms via shorts ball jointed rods.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wiper motors

I now turned my attention to the wiper motor. The one that came out of my car has a lever switch to turn it on. Since the motor is buried under the dash the lever was left in the on position and the dash switch controlled the power. This motor is marked 'SWF' on the switch. The body is marked '01201, 12V'. I tested it and it does not work. I took it to a shop and said it needs new windings.
I found a Marelli motor that is marked '12 volta, TG59X, N45'. I tested it and it does not work. I got an electric shock during the test. The shop said it is bad too.
I need 2 motors and the Marelli seems like the one that is easiest to mount. Does anybody know if there is one for sale? Is there a rebuilder that could fix my bad one?
 

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