[dharold]

More 69 label pictures

These are from my 69, serial # 1480371. The hood placement is close to original, I removed the labels and re-attached after it was repainted, going by my photos. They are not in good condition, they even had a layer of black paint over them at one time.

Also for good measure, the washer fluid bag and a radiator cap.

My car had no trace of a label on the door jambs. No holes for rivets, so it probably also had the label rather than the plastic number plate.

 

[dharold]

more photos

The remaining ones I promised.

 

[John M]

Thanks Harold for your post. Your lubrication and radiator cap decals are interesting to me. And if you are sure that placement is original...that seems to be unique. Note the picture that Brian posted...and I have attached another.

On the lubrication, I noticed quickly that you'll see that yours is unique in both layout and the position of the "N. 2176" on the bottom margin. Probably some other things I have yet to notice. Are you sure that is an original decal. From condition it appears to be to me...but would like to know if you can verify it original from new. I'll recreate this version.

Also on the radiator cap decal...this is strikingly different from what I have. And up until you posted this...I only had one style of this decal across all years. 69 though is as old as I have gone...so I wonder if this decal predates 69. First, does anyone still have this decal remaining to confirm that their radiator cap decal is the same as Harold's? I will be recreating this version. And Harold, can you numerate the version number in the margin for me?

Best Regards,
John M

 

[Anfanuts]

Thanks Harold. Nice work keeping those old underhood stickers. Perhaps John can test their DNA and figure out their lineage!! Perhaps the early 69's were different?? Did you ever get your production/or import date from Alfa Storico? I ask so because we are close cousins in S/N (1480323) and my import date was January 19, 1969, a "young 'un".

While we have no S/N association yet, it appears the earlier ones had the Made in Italy front door pillar sticker (did you have this one or an outline of it, or was the spot painted over??). And they also had the federal safety sticker versus the little white plastic riveted plaque under the door latch. Yours seems to fall in tho the "early" category on this count also.

I'm sure this is driving the concourse judges nuts, as well as John!! Confirms to me what I said about Giovani and Enrique above. Thanks! Bruce

PS: is that a new coil or original. I see a sticker lurking under it's protective cap. Likewise with the water bag; looks pretty bright blue for 4o years old. Mine is different; I'll take a photo.

 

[ossodiseppia]

I have scans of the oil decal and the tire decal. These are at 1:1 or 100% and would require no sizing. So, if you want the files, PM your email address and I'll get them to you.

 

[Anfanuts]

Brian, Is this one of the so-called 69 "lubes" decals represented herein? Also, is it a tire or wheel (Fergat, etc.) decal? Can you post an image? Thanks, Bruce

 

[dharold]

Hi John,

I need to go find my photo albums from the 20 year-ago restoration. Then, I can confirm the sticker location. The car was originally apple green, but as happens to so many (I am just as guilty), it was painted red before I bought it. The hood and engine compartment were sprayed black over the green (and over the labels), so if they weren't original, it would be surprising.

You are correct, the lube sticker has all the same wording, but heavier text, border and different number in the margin.

I can't claim a strong provenance on the radiator cap. That was the cap on it in 1987, with 102K miles on the car.

Bruce,
No, I don't know build date. I should try and get that. There was no evidence that I recall of a sticker or outline on the door jamb. The jambs had red paint over the original green, so probably sticker was removed at that time.

I will follow up as soon as I can on rad cap sticker number, confirmation of label placement, and any sign of door jamb label.

 

[papajam]

A few quick thoughts on some of the issues raised.

All 1969 model year USA version cars were fitted with a Marelli coil (p/n 106.00.65.079.00) and distributor (model S103B).

Plastic data plate on the doorjamb; my observations over the years on the 69 GTV indicate that vehicles built in 1969 have a sticker while those built in 1970 have a plastic plate. Of those with a plate, the imprinted build date on the plate is not consistent with the build date in the Alfa Archives. Of course, these are just observations and may or may no also apply to Spiders. One could always ask the owners of 69 model year cars whether they have a plate and if so, what is the imprinted date compared to the build date in the archives.

Paint sticker; I may be confusing this with the GTVs but I think a friends original Dark Blue Spider has a silver on black sticker. Will try to verify this weekend.

An Ate sticker on the booster, placed in close proximity to the reservoir, would refer to the type of brake fluid to be used (Ate Blau H), not to the type of booster. I can not (currently) verify though if such a sticker was ever used.

Emissions stickers; the early version has the injection pump timing at 80*ATDC; later version at 70*BTDC. The change occurred sometime between the printing of injection manual #1470 dated 3/69 and manual #1470 R1 dated 10/69.
Interesting note on the dwell spec of 30*. Point dwell refers to the number of degrees of distributor rotation while the points are closed. Alfa, whether by choice, error or oversight, lists the dwell spec while the points were open (at least on the early stickers). Injection manuals starting with #1470 R1 dated 10/69 list the dwell angle with the points closed.

Gearbox sticker; there should be a white on red sticker by the gearbox fill to indicate the use of EP oil.

 

[dharold]

John,

The number on the radiator cap label is: "No 2756" (with the "o" as a superscripted letter).

Some grainy digital reproductions from my photo album, showing the labels on the hood before I removed all of them. The oil sticker had already come off when I pressure washed the hood, which you can see stripped a lot of the black paint. The placement is confirmed, but it sure seems haphazard.

This is followed by a picture of my original airbox, with faint remains of the yellow filter stamp, and also the windshield washer bag, which was just as blue then (1988) as it is now.

 

[dharold]

One more label for the 69 list -- the oil filter

This is a very poor picture, but I am hoping someone else can help come up with something better. The oil filter cartridge has the faint outlines of a silkscreened pattern the probably specified the filter. I am pretty certain, also, that the aluminum casting for the filter has "FRAM" cast into it.

 

[Anfanuts]

According to the parts manuals, there were 6 manufacturers of oil filters and Fram was one of them. Yours is an orangish. Mine is a blueish color and has faint silk-screened FISPA markings on it. Below is the text of an e-mail I shared recently with John Duncan and papajam. Your observation seems to tend to confirm it in part. Thanks for the feedback Harold.
------------------
"Three bits of info after reviewing the 68/69 parts manuals:

1. There were up to 6 (six) oil filter assemblies/housings: FISPA, FRAM, Filt, Comit, and Falcos, and FIAMM . They had different part numbers (.01-.06 ). This was not modified by the USA manual so all 6 could theoretically have come to the US. The line drawings seemed to show subtle differences. I vaguely recall mine was FISPA ?

2. There were three steel wheels offered: Fergat, C.M.R., and Firsat. Same part numbers. (Fergat also offered a nice looking alloy wheel as an option.) This was not modified by the USA manual so all 3 could theoretically have come to the US (plus the optional alloy wheel). I have no idea if the three were identical but with one part number they should have been. They were NOT the same wheel you showed me with the Fergat sticker which has the riveted-on hubcap holder clips. That is an earlier model. A 69's hubcap holder nubs were integrated into the forging.

3. The base manual showed either a Bosch or Marelli coil, BUT, the USA manual showed only a Marelli. It's probable that only USA models had Marelli. This does not mean that a Euro car made it over here with a Bosch, or that someone retrofitted a Bosch coil to their car (in fact, I think I might have one).

I guess the point is, it will be difficult to generalize on an exact "sticker" for these items without more specific "variant" information from the user, if even they can determine this on some items (like wheels).

From this I'd say:
- they will not know for sure what their oil filter canister is unless there are other cast-in markings or have somewhat intact markings
- they should be able to tell if they have a Marelli or Bosch coil
- the Fergat sticker for a 69 wheel is a long shot unless they have a current Fergat sticker on theirs (a spare perhaps), or if there are other casting markings

 

[papajam]

Update.
Chassis 1480445 does NOT have a plastic data plate on the doorjamb nor the holes to mount one.
The emissions sticker lists the injection pump timing as 80*ATDC.
The paint sticker is silver on black (pic below).
Also pictured is a dark green FIAMM filter canister.

 

[Anfanuts]

Jim,

Well, that makes 4 of the 6 oil filters we've now found on just 69 Spider's alone (COMIT, FRAM, FIAMM and FISPA {for which I owe a snap for proof}), and all in different colors no less!! It looks like it will be pretty difficult to standardize stickers on this or even try to replicate them! Much like the airbox sticker investigation. Plus like the airbox they were probably originally silk screened (??).

Seems the DUCO paint stickers were more prevalent (the red-on-white-on-red ones) as this is the first I've seen this chrome/black paint sticker. John should be able to replicate this one.

Note the white door safety plaque in my post above says it was on a 9/69 car. Since the S/N is legible one could trace the Alfa Storico import date as well and see if it was an early vs. late 69 thing versus just a 70. I guess if you don't have holes you must have had the sticker and vice-versa.

Any thoughts on the coil issue or wheel manufacturer/sticker issues raised above (and in an e-mail)??

Thanks, Bruce

 

[papajam]

All US version 69 Alfas have a Marelli coil.

Don't recall ever having seen a sticker on a wheel but I have seen the manufacturer name stamped into the wheel. I'll need to check...

 

[Anfanuts]

I'm personally not that hot and bothered by the wheel sticker as it will not "show" unless you remove a hubcap anyway (if you have stock wheels/caps) but some concourse guy might be. John has some snaps but all the pics I've seen with the Fregat sticker appeared to be the earlier model wheels with the riveted hubcap clips, and not a 69.

We're in violent agreement on the coil issue however many Bosch coils have crept in to US cars. This is another interesting concourse point for a perfect and/or concourse car in and of itself, but a Bosch coil will work just fine. Just nice to have the correct sticker for the coil on the car. Seems a Euro car could have had either.

Up early and at 'em. Oatmeal and coffee down. What's next? Regards, Bruce

 

[John M]

Ok...you guys are busy this morning!

Here is the radiator cap decal ready for printing. Thanks Harold!

Jim, do you have that paint decal? If so I need a better picture or for you to scribe it for me. I cannot read it to remake it. Also...ole great master, can you get me a readable photo of the EP geabox fill decal? And is there a 2nd emissions decal I need to create?

Was there a Magneti Marelli decal on the distributor? Seems like someone provided a picture some time ago in a paint decal thread. Doubt if it was off a 69 but got me to wondering if such a thing was on the 69.

Best Regards,
John M

 

[papajam]

Yes, a Bosch coil will work just fine in a 69 US car but it is not correct and therefore should be a deduction at a concourse. Conversely, a Marelli coil on a Euro car is just as incorrect.

I should have a few filter canisters out in the shed. I'll poke around a bit...

 

[Anfanuts]

Jim, a question - Did not the 68/69 parts manual list either a Marelli or Bosch for a Euro car? But the USA manual listed only the Marelli? So, in my feeble early Sunday condition, wouldn't a Marelli be correct on a Euro car as well as a Bosch? Just checking my work. Still a bit new at susing out what the parts manuals mean.

John, is there a correct radiator cap sticker for the 69 of the two, or is this a S/N cutoff issue here as well ([email protected]). Harold said he got his car in (?) 87 and it might not have been original (but I suspect if it had a sticker it was). Any thoughts? By now the concourse judges will be so confused they'll accept any [email protected] sticker with red!!

Are we closed on the fuel RON, DOT3 and Ate stickers? If so, should I delete them or show the ones "eliminated" from contention to show a trail of thought.

PS: I continue to try to update the opening post with this new"69" information as it comes in, but it just seems in some cases to be getting more divergent on alternates.

Best regards, Bruce

 

[John M]

Hey Bruce:

Don't know yet on the radiator cap. We need to hear back from others...hopefully an owner from new. But if we start to see a bunch of people with this radiator cap on their 69...that will tell the story. I could also just offer the choice.

I have forwarded the info to Chuck and Stan this morning along with a link to this thread. So these guys can chime in across the spectrum on what they know. Both of these guys seem pretty knowledgeable.

I think we can close the RON, DOT3, and the ATE sticker I have (its a part number sticker and doesn't mention blau H). I would show them as eliminated to say we have vetted that and passed on them. But in any case...if someone wants them, I'll add them to their set. I was already throwing them in for free with the sets for those who wanted them.

Best Regards,
John M

J

Are we closed on the fuel RON, DOT3 and Ate stickers? If so, should I delete them or show the ones "eliminated" from contention to show a trail of thought.

PS: I continue to try to update the opening post with this new"69" information as it comes in, but it just seems in some cases to be getting more divergent on alternates.

Best regards, Bruce

 

[ossodiseppia]

...- they will not know for sure what their oil filter canister is unless they invest lots of trouble evaluating it or have somewhat intact markings (or make an assumption or have a good imagination)...

The manufacturer name is posted on the top. See photo.