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Discussion Starter #61
door handles and other stuff

Due to my Achilles tendon rupture and subsequent surgery, I have a lot of time to work successive days on the Duetto. I have learned to do things while on a knee scooter. Things takes longer, but surprising what happens when you work days in a row on the car, stuff gets done.

Got the flasher switch all figured out and installed in it correct postion. Thanks again for everyones collective help with this.

I installed the new dash top I got though Mr. Fiat to the repainted metal dash panels. As some of you have already advised, of course it did not match. The center bolt hole did not align, but worse is the molding left an approx. 45 degree mating surface where the metals panels are secured with studs. So with the help of a pneumatic cutter and die grinder I was able to get a nice 90 degree angle, but then had to shim the area above the glove box to get a sufficient distance of the upper (black) dash lip in order for the glove box door to open.

After about 3.5 hours of work, everything appears to fit and is ready for install.

Next I disassembled the gauges to clean the inside of the lenses and touch up flaked paint on the needles. Tested them elctricall to see that they all function. They did the last time I drove the car, so we should be fine. Also polished the bezels.

Got all the dash wiring figured out (I did label most it when it was dissasembled) and updated all the gauge lights to LED's

Started to reinstall some of the re-plated chrome. Like some people have commented, of course I forgot how the door handles are assembled. I finally figured it our and included pictures of the assembly sequence here if other might need the in the future.

I have ordered all the remaining bits I need to finish the dash (two switches, radio filler plate, cowl drains, etc). Our son is coming into town this week from LA, so I will ask him to help install the dash after I have all the parts.

Still looking for a machinist to do my cylinder head. I recall mention of someone in the Detroit area. Any further advice. I need valve seat and guides installed, and all the required machining.

Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Sept update

Been a awhile since posting anything. Have been plugging along.

Dash is in with all the gauges and cables. Waiting for one piece for the glove box door lock. Doors and windows are all done and adjusted. Very happy with how all that came out. Hydraulics for the brakes are set as well.

I would strongly advise against using stainless brake pipes. The regular steel is plenty good enough. I found the stainless pipes too hard to shape, and really had a difficult time getting the fittings to seal at the master cylinder. Simply not worth paying more and having difficulties working with the result.

Was able to disassemble, clean and paint the horns. Had to adjust one but they both function fine now.

Now starting on the seat covers. Don't, like the fact the covers were glued to the center of the foam, but should be able to still reuse them.

Found a machinist who has done lot of Alfa heads in Connecticut. Shipped the head to them last week.

Will start on the engine (that last big step) when I get it back.

Been out of a cast and driving again now for the last three weeks. What a relief.

Marc
 

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WOW! What a great resource you are providing. Beautiful Job.

I am in the process of refreshing my brother's '66 Duetto so he can sell it and pay me the money he owes me. Ha! Found this bulletin board during my research. Can anyone recommend a good source for a window crank handle? One of ours has stripped teeth. I've checked Mr. Fiat and Centerlinealfa with no luck. I did find a reproduction on Classic Alfa but it doesn't have the cap on the handle and not sure if I could transfer the one from the old handle.

Thanks for sharing your build and everyone's great feedback.

Adam
 

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Great job! Glad to see the updated pictures. I wouldn't use stainless line either, new lines will probably make another 50 years. At that time I wonder if gas will be available. Good luck
 

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WOW! What a great resource you are providing. Beautiful Job.

I am in the process of refreshing my brother's '66 Duetto so he can sell it and pay me the money he owes me. Ha! Found this bulletin board during my research. Can anyone recommend a good source for a window crank handle? One of ours has stripped teeth. I've checked Mr. Fiat and Centerlinealfa with no luck. I did find a reproduction on Classic Alfa but it doesn't have the cap on the handle and not sure if I could transfer the one from the old handle.

Thanks for sharing your build and everyone's great feedback.

Adam
Alfaholics carries the correct ones.

https://www.alfaholics.com/parts/105-series/chrome/spider/
 

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Marc, beautiful work you are doing. It is so nice to see the entire process as it progresses. This is surely an inspiration for those of us like me who are sitting on a car waiting for the right moment to do a full restoration.
 

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Thanks for the update (and your purchase of the blue Duetto glove box door on eBay) Marc!

Is that 'Dynaliner' you used under the seat area and on the floorboards shown in post #62? Looks very nice and clean. I can just barely see their 'watermark'.

Mark
 

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'Snap-on' Banana, "S" and open/socket end wrenches

Marc,

Unless you already have these three wrenches in your collection; do yourself a favor and get them now! They will make installing your exhaust headers, carburetors and many other things much, much easier!

Snap-on wrench collection.jpg

'Snap-on' Banana wrench p/n CXM1113 (11 mm and 13 mm ends)
'Snap-on' "S" wrench p/n S5911 (13 mm and 14 mm ends)
'Snap-on' open/socket end wrench p/n FHOM13 (13 mm both ends)

When I joined the AROC and Atlanta chapter right after getting my Duetto in 1984, then Club Chairman David DeAtley strongly recommended these three wrenches and went so far as to have the local 'Snap-on' representative drive his truck to our Monday night meeting. Many of us bought this small collection of wrenches and I am so glad that I did! Over the years, I have used them countless times and think of my old friend David, who passed away, way too soon.

When it comes time to install your engine, I would recommend leaving the oil filter canister and headers off until the engine is in. You'll be less likely to scar up your nicely painted battery heat shield.

At the suggestion of a good friend/ Alfa Mechanic, I made the mistake of leaving the carburetors off until the engine was installed too. What a PITA...it is very difficult to install the carburetors, support rod, linkage and ground strap -while the engine is in the car. Much easier to do on the engine stand, like I did 35 years ago!

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Mark,

Thanks for the great advice. I have one of the wrenches, but will purchase the other two, and also follow your suggestions regarding the carbs and headers.

Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Glove box door

Hello Folks,

I had a couple of issues with my glove box door that I was able to solve, and would like to share in case anyone else has these issues.

First the metal holder (the threaded barrel) that holds the lock cylinder in the glove box door broke when I was disassembling it. I purchase a used glove box door that had the barrel still installed, and that immediately broke upon my first attempt to remove it. It is just cheap pot metal from the day. So I purchased a use glove box lock from Fiat 124 for 14$. The barrel is plastic and fist perfectly. It looks also to be the same cylinder used on my Espada.

Next, I could not find the rubber bump stops for the glove box door. I tried the bump stops that XK's Unlimited have for the fuel filler door on and XKE. They fit and work perfectly. They cost 1.24 each.

Marc
 

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Hi Marc,

Here is another quick suggestion that does not cost anything but will reward you later. While your engine is still out of the car, you should mark the 'F' static/idle line with white paint and 'M' maximum advance timing mark with red paint on the crank pulley. I drove my Duetto 30 miles yesterday -for a total of 50 miles since the complete rebuild. (Still using 3,500 rpm as the shift limit, for the first 800 Km's.) Checking the timing after the drive, I could not see those blasted tiny little timing marks and everything I touched on the engine burned me. I am still working to get the engine dialed in.

I believe you will find this information very helpful when you finally get the car started (found here on the abb):

I don't think George Willet will mind if I share what he passed along to me years ago. It's copied below. This link is also well worth checking out: Daves home page

Care and feeding of your Weber carbureted engine.

First the carbs need to be synchronized:
• Back the idle speed screw out until it no longer contacts the arm; unscrew and remove the 4 plugs for the progression holes.
• Shine a good flashlight down into the port; slowly screw in the idle speed screw on the rear carb until you can just see the shinny edge of the butterfly through one of the three progression holes. (Some carbs may only have two progression holes per throat).
• Then slowly adjust the balance screw for the front carb until you can see the edge of the front carb butterflies though the progression holes in the same progression hole as the rear carb.
• Move the idle screw in and out a couple of times and watch that the butterflies on both carbs are in the same spot through the front and rear carb progression holes, if not then repeat the above sequence until they are in the same relationship as seen through the holes.
• If one butterfly of the four is “early or late” then the throttle shaft is twisted and needs attention.
• Open and close the throttles a couple of times: recheck; redo adjustments until they are exact!
• Use this method to balance the carbs: DO NOT USE AIR SYNCHRONIZERS, see below.
• Now back off the idle speed screw and then slowly make contact with the carb arm and give it ½ turn to just open the butterflies.

Initial idle set screw adjustment:
• On carbs with a two digit suffix, GENTLY close the mixture screws till they just seat and back out ¾ turn: on carbs with a three digit suffix, back out 2 ½ turns.
• Start the engine and set the timing, (see below)
• The engine should now idle around 900 RPM; if not adjust the idle speed screw until you are close to 900, but not faster. IMPORTANT. (You change the mixture requirement as the idle speed goes up and you will throw your adjustments off if the idle is set too high, and the engine will “hunt”).
• To adjust the idle mixture: turn out, (or in), the first screw slowly until the engine picks up RPM. If it speeds up over 900 RPM, then slow it down with the idle set screw and continue adjusting the mixture until it idles the fastest via mixture adjustment, but not over 900 RPM. (I don’t care what cams you are running, what porting, what exhaust, you should be able to get this idle speed, or something else is wrong ).
• Then turn the other three screws exactly the same number of turns. When you have it right all four screws must be adjusted off the seat the same number of turns, or fraction of turns.
• Adjusting the mixture at idle takes a minute for the engine to consume all the extra fuel from a richer setting (out). Give it a chance to settle.

Recap.
• The butterflies will be in exactly the same relationship to the progression holes on both carbs via a mechanical adjustment.
• The idle will be at 900 RPM.
• The idle mixture will have the engine running at the highest speed, but not to exceed 900 RPM.

Now:
• Turn in the idle mixture screws equally just a little to lean out the mixture.
• Bring up the RPM slowly once or twice to clear the engine, but not to make the accelerator pump inject too much gas.
• Set the idle mixture screws as lean as you can until the carbs spit back, or the engine stumbles when starting out on a drive with a warm engine.
• Turn out the screws minimally until the engine is as lean as you can go, but only spits rarely, and drives ok up to about 1500RPM. Beyond that you are in the idle jetting.
• You only run on the idle screw mixture up to 1500+- RPM.
• You should be able to slowly turn in the idle screw and the engine will respond smoothly.

Adjusting the ignition timing:
• With the engine warm, have someone using the timing light watch for the M mark to come up on the pulley, while you bring up the RPM until the distributor stops advancing. This will be anywhere from 3000 to 5000 RPM depending on the distributor.
• Rotate the distributor until the timing mark and the pointer align on the M mark on the pulley at maximum distributor advance.
• Snug the distributor down. Recheck the timing.
• Tighten down the distributor. Recheck the timing.

Notes on ignition timing:
• **Use the M mark on the two liter engines, you need to use a two degree timing loop to determine the correct advance for other engines**.
• (“Timing loops”: Slightly retard the timing a few degrees from what you have; accelerate in third gear on a level stretch of road using a set RPM range, IE 3500-6500 RPM or whatever range your engine works best in; advance the timing 2 degrees; accelerate over the same road; If you are faster, keep upping the timing 2 degrees until you feel the car going slower, or the stopwatch shows you have lost time between the selected RPM segments. When the car acceleration slows from the preceding adjustment, go back to the last setting where it pulled the best/ had the quickest time on the stop watch). (“Don’t do this at home ” unless you have what I call “mechanical empathy”, it is a matter of feel).
• The amount of advance in the distributor affects the idle speed and throttle response. It should be recurved by a good source that races Alfas, to match your engine set-up recipe. If the advance is less than 3 to 8 degrees at idle with the setting at the M mark, then you know your distributor needs help. Some race engines need 12/15 degrees at idle to run properly. Most of the Marelli distributor with the weights up, are sticky and worn, and give erratic settings until cleaned and the advance limited in the distributor. And the Marelli Plex distributors I have tested are all over the place on internal advance. The Bosche distributors off of the 1600 engines have too much advance in them for 1750/two liter engines and need to be limited on advance.



Notes:
Try to keep the engine temp near normal running temp while doing mixture adjustments, as this will affect the mixture.
• Jetting the carbs are a whole ‘nother discussion, and there are complete books written on the subject.
• All of the above came from “the” books, from the best West Coast Weber guru, and from my experience. There are other ways to accomplish the above, but this works.
• So, why not use air synchronizers? The air synchronizers reflect the volume of air entering each carb throat. This can vary depending on many factors: camshaft timing on each cylinder, (Auto Delta and the factory adjusted the lash according to the timing of each lobe, not valve lash dimensions); variations in spark timing per cylinder due to distributor pick up point variations; compression ratio variations between cylinders; port volume variations; mixture adjustments; etc). The Webers rely on the mechanical position of the butterflies opening each progression port in the same relationship to the others to meter the same air/fuel mix to each cylinder at idle speeds and up.

Daves home page

Sorry about the glove box door. Glad you got it figured out.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Hi Marc,

Here is another quick suggestion that does not cost anything but will reward you later. While your engine is still out of the car, you should mark the 'F' static/idle line with white paint and 'M' maximum advance timing mark with red paint on the crank pulley. I drove my Duetto 30 miles yesterday -for a total of 50 miles since the complete rebuild. (Still using 3,500 rpm as the shift limit, for the first 800 Km's.) Checking the timing after the drive, I could not see those blasted tiny little timing marks and everything I touched on the engine burned me. I am still working to get the engine dialed in.

I believe you will find this information very helpful when you finally get the car started (found here on the abb):

I don't think George Willet will mind if I share what he passed along to me years ago. It's copied below. This link is also well worth checking out: Daves home page

Care and feeding of your Weber carbureted engine.

First the carbs need to be synchronized:
• Back the idle speed screw out until it no longer contacts the arm; unscrew and remove the 4 plugs for the progression holes.
• Shine a good flashlight down into the port; slowly screw in the idle speed screw on the rear carb until you can just see the shinny edge of the butterfly through one of the three progression holes. (Some carbs may only have two progression holes per throat).
• Then slowly adjust the balance screw for the front carb until you can see the edge of the front carb butterflies though the progression holes in the same progression hole as the rear carb.
• Move the idle screw in and out a couple of times and watch that the butterflies on both carbs are in the same spot through the front and rear carb progression holes, if not then repeat the above sequence until they are in the same relationship as seen through the holes.
• If one butterfly of the four is “early or late” then the throttle shaft is twisted and needs attention.
• Open and close the throttles a couple of times: recheck; redo adjustments until they are exact!
• Use this method to balance the carbs: DO NOT USE AIR SYNCHRONIZERS, see below.
• Now back off the idle speed screw and then slowly make contact with the carb arm and give it ½ turn to just open the butterflies.

Initial idle set screw adjustment:
• On carbs with a two digit suffix, GENTLY close the mixture screws till they just seat and back out ¾ turn: on carbs with a three digit suffix, back out 2 ½ turns.
• Start the engine and set the timing, (see below)
• The engine should now idle around 900 RPM; if not adjust the idle speed screw until you are close to 900, but not faster. IMPORTANT. (You change the mixture requirement as the idle speed goes up and you will throw your adjustments off if the idle is set too high, and the engine will “hunt”).
• To adjust the idle mixture: turn out, (or in), the first screw slowly until the engine picks up RPM. If it speeds up over 900 RPM, then slow it down with the idle set screw and continue adjusting the mixture until it idles the fastest via mixture adjustment, but not over 900 RPM. (I don’t care what cams you are running, what porting, what exhaust, you should be able to get this idle speed, or something else is wrong ).
• Then turn the other three screws exactly the same number of turns. When you have it right all four screws must be adjusted off the seat the same number of turns, or fraction of turns.
• Adjusting the mixture at idle takes a minute for the engine to consume all the extra fuel from a richer setting (out). Give it a chance to settle.

Recap.
• The butterflies will be in exactly the same relationship to the progression holes on both carbs via a mechanical adjustment.
• The idle will be at 900 RPM.
• The idle mixture will have the engine running at the highest speed, but not to exceed 900 RPM.

Now:
• Turn in the idle mixture screws equally just a little to lean out the mixture.
• Bring up the RPM slowly once or twice to clear the engine, but not to make the accelerator pump inject too much gas.
• Set the idle mixture screws as lean as you can until the carbs spit back, or the engine stumbles when starting out on a drive with a warm engine.
• Turn out the screws minimally until the engine is as lean as you can go, but only spits rarely, and drives ok up to about 1500RPM. Beyond that you are in the idle jetting.
• You only run on the idle screw mixture up to 1500+- RPM.
• You should be able to slowly turn in the idle screw and the engine will respond smoothly.

Adjusting the ignition timing:
• With the engine warm, have someone using the timing light watch for the M mark to come up on the pulley, while you bring up the RPM until the distributor stops advancing. This will be anywhere from 3000 to 5000 RPM depending on the distributor.
• Rotate the distributor until the timing mark and the pointer align on the M mark on the pulley at maximum distributor advance.
• Snug the distributor down. Recheck the timing.
• Tighten down the distributor. Recheck the timing.

Notes on ignition timing:
Use the M mark on the two liter engines, you need to use a two degree timing loop to determine the correct advance for other engines.
• (“Timing loops”: Slightly retard the timing a few degrees from what you have; accelerate in third gear on a level stretch of road using a set RPM range, IE 3500-6500 RPM or whatever range your engine works best in; advance the timing 2 degrees; accelerate over the same road; If you are faster, keep upping the timing 2 degrees until you feel the car going slower, or the stopwatch shows you have lost time between the selected RPM segments. When the car acceleration slows from the preceding adjustment, go back to the last setting where it pulled the best/ had the quickest time on the stop watch). (“Don’t do this at home ” unless you have what I call “mechanical empathy”, it is a matter of feel).
• The amount of advance in the distributor affects the idle speed and throttle response. It should be recurved by a good source that races Alfas, to match your engine set-up recipe. If the advance is less than 3 to 8 degrees at idle with the setting at the M mark, then you know your distributor needs help. Some race engines need 12/15 degrees at idle to run properly. Most of the Marelli distributor with the weights up, are sticky and worn, and give erratic settings until cleaned and the advance limited in the distributor. And the Marelli Plex distributors I have tested are all over the place on internal advance. The Bosche distributors off of the 1600 engines have too much advance in them for 1750/two liter engines and need to be limited on advance.



Notes:
Try to keep the engine temp near normal running temp while doing mixture adjustments, as this will affect the mixture.
• Jetting the carbs are a whole ‘nother discussion, and there are complete books written on the subject.
• All of the above came from “the” books, from the best West Coast Weber guru, and from my experience. There are other ways to accomplish the above, but this works.
• So, why not use air synchronizers? The air synchronizers reflect the volume of air entering each carb throat. This can vary depending on many factors: camshaft timing on each cylinder, (Auto Delta and the factory adjusted the lash according to the timing of each lobe, not valve lash dimensions); variations in spark timing per cylinder due to distributor pick up point variations; compression ratio variations between cylinders; port volume variations; mixture adjustments; etc). The Webers rely on the mechanical position of the butterflies opening each progression port in the same relationship to the others to meter the same air/fuel mix to each cylinder at idle speeds and up.

Daves home page

Sorry about the glove box door. Glad you got it figured out.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Folks,

Have not been doing much lately as we have been now dealing with my wife's broken ankle. This must be our year of ankle issues.

I did finish the driveshaft and put new seals in the transmission. Started on the seat covers and have a question. The center section of the covers are glued to the foam cushion. Every seat I have ever worked on has the center section secured with either the hog rings, or straps of some sort, but there is no provision to do this with the replacement covers I got for Classic Alfa.

I am asking for any advice on how and what type of adhesive to use
1605641
, if this is the correct way to secure the covers.

Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Thanks for super quick and thorough response.

That what I thought, as your images are like every other Italian seat cover I have worked on. However, There are no holes in the foam, and the frame that the cover is clipped to is the same one that secures the cushion in the frame. All four covers were glued in the same fashion.

I wonder if this is just an aberration due to the fact this is a very early car.

Marc

1605663
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