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Are you considering a purchase, or just looking for conversation?

Assuming the car is exactly as pictured and has nothing hidden, it appears to be a good starting point at a fair-market price. These cars are going up in price. The cost of restoring one will be shocking, however. This one seems to have all, or most, of its parts, and that's a great thing.

There WILL be rust. There is little point in just painting one, although you can try. Generally, you're looking at $50k to restore one if there is very little rust, and there is rarely very little list. It is usually more than little, in which case the cost can double.

As a driver, it appears priced right.
 

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Are you considering a purchase, or just looking for conversation?

Assuming the car is exactly as pictured and has nothing hidden, it appears to be a good starting point at a fair-market price. These cars are going up in price. The cost of restoring one will be shocking, however. This one seems to have all, or most, of its parts, and that's a great thing.

There WILL be rust. There is little point in just painting one, although you can try. Generally, you're looking at $50k to restore one if there is very little rust, and there is rarely very little list. It is usually more than little, in which case the cost can double.

As a driver, it appears priced right.
Nice to see some level-headed advice. However, I have been told that restoration costs on the West Coast are more like $75,000-$150,000.

Although it is difficult to find one of these that drives and has its original tool kit and books, the buyer of this car will be underwater at the asking price in the ad, in my opinion.
 

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I am no 2600 expert by any stretch...it is amazing that this 50 year old is a one owner car. It looks like it has been "a driver" all its years; a good '20 footer' with a lot of needs but nothing Bernard can't fix for a price.

Mark
 

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I have an elbow-deep perspective on Touring car rust. However, if this one has limited rust, and that is possible given the pictures, a $75k - $100k restoration may well NOT put the owner on the wrong side of the equation. $150k is quite achievable for a top 2600.


Nice to see some level-headed advice. However, I have been told that restoration costs on the West Coast are more like $75,000-$150,000.

Although it is difficult to find one of these that drives and has its original tool kit and books, the buyer of this car will be underwater at the asking price in the ad, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Are you considering a purchase, or just looking for conversation?

Considering a purchase -- someday. Trying to be more educated.

Thank you, Don.
 

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I have been told that restoration costs on the West Coast are more like $75,000-$150,000.
I have always been a proponent of the idea that restoration costs more than most people realize. So it's odd to find myself on the other side of this debate.

But I'm puzzled how as much as $75,000-$150,000 could go into the restoration of what looks like a complete, straight 2600 spider. How would that budget get distributed across paint, body, chrome, interior, mechanical, ...?

If this was an incomplete V12 Ferrari, and the work was performed by a $200/hr Ferrari specialist, then OK it would be big bucks. But unless the ebay ad has me completely fooled, I'm envisioning some rust repair, bodywork, disassembly, paint, reassembly, maybe some plating, some upholstery, and that's it. I can picture $75,000+ but not six figures.
 

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Before I go off on a negative direction, I will say that this car is interesting because it drives and because it offers a bit of authenticity by having the toolkit, books and ownership history. It looks like an interesting starting point for a project. Now for why I am going out on a limb with my opinion about value.

The rocker panels have an obvious coating of bondo,and not skillfully applied. So you have to assume that they are rusted out. Once you open that can of tin-worms, you're fully committed. Say 1500 hours at $80/hr. and you're at $120,000 for labor alone. Let's say you get lucky, and it's 1000 hours. You're still in it for over $100k after you add parts on top of it. Now suppose that Don's hunch is correct, and it's 500 hours to restore. That is $40,000 in labor, plus whatever you put into it for parts and outsourced work, such as limited chrome plating. This scale of restoration gets you to a best case scenario, low end figure of $60,000. This is assuming that you want to have a good job done. Bad restorations are so obvious and so unattractive, however, that I don't know why one would spend money that way, at all. Plus, the market won't return the money spent at a no-name, poor quality restoration shop. The local body shop won't cut it, if someone wants to return this car to excellent appearance. The $80/hr. rate is what I see around New England. I am told that rates on the West Coast are more like $100/hr., but I do not have direct experience to support that.

Hagerty says a no. 2 condition car is worth $96,000, no. 1 condition is worth $126,000. I doubt that my best case scenario would leave the owner with a no. 1 condition car. There are too many details that would have to be skipped in a $60,000 restoration. So a buyer might break even with a $115,000 investment, assuming that the buyer is lucky both with the car and with the restoration shop. But I doubt it.

All this is just my opinion. If someone really loves 2600 Spiders, the final price won't matter as much as having a beautifully done car. But one has to be practical, too. Do you want to spend a fortune on an old car, then be unable to insure it for more than 75% of what you have into it? If we call this a no. 4 condition car, then Hagerty values it at $41,300.
 

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FWIW, the seller is a "flipper"/broker as some of you know.. The 1 ownership line might be a dead end if the owner isn't among us anymore. (npi)... 107,000 miles? ..that's about the life of anything of the era. The BIN price obviously leaves him room and invites lower offers if he can get a phone conversation going from his sketchy description. Very cagey, indeed.

Neither my heart nor my pocket book gets tugged by these 2600's.

PS the B&W bait photo in the listing is a 2000 not a 2600...
 

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Once the bondo-rockers are removed, the truth can be awesome to contemplate. Touring truly perfected the concept of the evaporating car. To borrow from another writer on a related post some time ago... Perhaps Touring/Alfa considered these cars to be targeted at rich playboys and actors, who would keep the car as long as this-year's 20 year-old femme du jour. After two years, it had served its purpose, and any thoughts of maintainability were irrelevant.

At present, body parts are far more available than they ever were, and mechanical parts are pretty easy to get. Odd parts such as trim are enjoying a renewed availability as well, but at prices that have an extra zero added to what might be charged for the same part on a 105.

BTW, my local body shop charges me $56 per hour, and they have restored cars currently in the Mercedes museum in Germany. They are very much a top flight shop, but this is Carson City, not Boston or LA, and I took the time to befriend the owner, although calling him an ******* in front of his wife may have set me back a little recently. I didn't realize she was there (it was in the middle of a local casino), and guys talk to guys the way girls talk to girls, when the other sex isn't around.

I see little difference in buying this car for 55k or 40k. In the two or three years it takes to complete a #1 restoration, the market price will have a) collapsed to nothing or b) accelerated enough to overcome the extra paid. Either way, the extra 15k is a rounding error.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to all.

Wife says I can proceed with purchase of 2600 or 2000.

Please help me with model specific information I should elicit from seller.

Car is located in Connecticut -- please refer me to local regional specialist for PPI, if I go forward.

Please tell me if know of others for sale.
 

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Before I go off on a negative direction, I will say that this car is interesting because it drives and because it offers a bit of authenticity by having the toolkit, books and ownership history. It looks like an interesting starting point for a project. Now for why I am going out on a limb with my opinion about value.

The rocker panels have an obvious coating of bondo,and not skillfully applied. So you have to assume that they are rusted out. Once you open that can of tin-worms, you're fully committed. Say 1500 hours at $80/hr. and you're at $120,000 for labor alone. Let's say you get lucky, and it's 1000 hours. You're still in it for over $100k after you add parts on top of it. Now suppose that Don's hunch is correct, and it's 500 hours to restore. That is $40,000 in labor, plus whatever you put into it for parts and outsourced work, such as limited chrome plating. This scale of restoration gets you to a best case scenario, low end figure of $60,000. This is assuming that you want to have a good job done. Bad restorations are so obvious and so unattractive, however, that I don't know why one would spend money that way, at all. Plus, the market won't return the money spent at a no-name, poor quality restoration shop. The local body shop won't cut it, if someone wants to return this car to excellent appearance. The $80/hr. rate is what I see around New England. I am told that rates on the West Coast are more like $100/hr., but I do not have direct experience to support that.

Hagerty says a no. 2 condition car is worth $96,000, no. 1 condition is worth $126,000. I doubt that my best case scenario would leave the owner with a no. 1 condition car. There are too many details that would have to be skipped in a $60,000 restoration. So a buyer might break even with a $115,000 investment, assuming that the buyer is lucky both with the car and with the restoration shop. But I doubt it.

All this is just my opinion. If someone really loves 2600 Spiders, the final price won't matter as much as having a beautifully done car. But one has to be practical, too. Do you want to spend a fortune on an old car, then be unable to insure it for more than 75% of what you have into it? If we call this a no. 4 condition car, then Hagerty values it at $41,300.
This, and Don's posts, are very helpful in providing a level set. Good shops out West are $100 an hour if not more for top work.
 

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although calling him an ******* in front of his wife may have set me back a little recently. I didn't realize she was there (it was in the middle of a local casino), and guys talk to guys the way girls talk to girls, when the other sex isn't around.
Ha ha, I've added this to list of things not to do.
 

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Thanks to all.

Wife says I can proceed with purchase of 2600 or 2000.

Please help me with model specific information I should elicit from seller.

Car is located in Connecticut -- please refer me to local regional specialist for PPI, if I go forward.

Please tell me if know of others for sale.
There are some inconsistencies in the description of this car (one owner car but Euro lights and leather interior, etc.). Condition is not great either. As Don pointed out above, these cars were born with rust at the factory.

IMO, you're best off buying a restored car. Bernhard Fleischhacker in Austria has done several 2600 Spiders and therefore knows how to do them right, see this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My thanks to all who responded on the BB and privately. I'm not sure where I'll go on this or another, but it's a great community to be part of.
 

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Carbs.

One thing to look for in a 2600 is the very desirable conversion of the solex carbs to webers. The solex carbs have a different opening mechanism which is less than desirable according to the BB postings and the webers give more power which this heavy car could use. Also steering is very heavy apparently and some contributors have installed power steering which is not so easy.
I have also been tempted by the 2600 coupe but would only buy one in reasonable condition given the cost of restoration as discussed by others on this thread. I would debate the estimated value as over $100,000 for top end restored 2600 unless it is a convertible. Show me the auction result! Good luck
 
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