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Discussion Starter #1
In the process of putting a new clutch kit in my 91 164L. Been following most of Alfisto Steve's transmission removal procedure and got to the point of separating the tranny from the engine. It gets stuck about 3/4" off of the flywheel and seems to be hung up on the lower right side by the starter.
At a loss as to what to do next? What could be hanging the trans up from coming off further?

I should mention that we are trying to do this with the engine still in the car.

Need some help quick please!!!!!

Thx
 

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All three starter bolts out? Shift linkage Y-yoke disconnected?
Reaction rod disconnected?

All bell housing bolts removed including one below starter area and one under shifter rod in bell housing under black plastic box over shifter?

You have removed flywheel cover underneath at back of oil pan?

You have removed intermediate axle under starter area? You can get tranny off without doing this but need it pulled back to reinstall tranny. I just remove 4 lower bolts from right front strut and three bolts holding IM axle in rear motor mount bracket and slide axle out of tranny. Fluid will come out so drain tranny at differential plug.

You have jacked up engine enough to get differential case over side of sub frame? Probably should remove bolt from upper dog bone mount when you jack up rear of engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
All three starter bolts out? Shift linkage Y-yoke disconnected?
Reaction rod disconnected?

All bell housing bolts removed including one below starter area and one under shifter rod in bell housing under black plastic box over shifter?

You have removed flywheel cover underneath at back of oil pan?

You have removed intermediate axle under starter area? You can get tranny off without doing this but need it pulled back to reinstall tranny. I just remove 4 lower bolts from right front strut and three bolts holding IM axle in rear motor mount bracket and slide axle out of tranny. Fluid will come out so drain tranny at differential plug.

You have jacked up engine enough to get differential case over side of sub frame? Probably should remove bolt from upper dog bone mount when you jack up rear of engine.
Thanks Steve. It was the upper bolt on the starter. I didn't realize that the spacer between the starter and the trans housing interfered with the flywheel.

What a pain to get that upper bolt. Had to remove the rear exhaust manifold and the heat shield.

Now getting it to go back together is going to be fun.

Actual problem turned out to be a blown throwout bearing. I'll take pictures and post in the a.m.. I'll also post on my other thread for continuity.

No just waiting for my clutch kit to arrive so I can begin the install.

Thanks for the help.

David
 

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Thanks Steve. It was the upper bolt on the starter. I didn't realize that the spacer between the starter and the trans housing interfered with the flywheel.

What a pain to get that upper bolt. Had to remove the rear exhaust manifold and the heat shield.

Now getting it to go back together is going to be fun.

Actual problem turned out to be a blown throwout bearing. I'll take pictures and post in the a.m.. I'll also post on my other thread for continuity.

No just waiting for my clutch kit to arrive so I can begin the install.

Thanks for the help.

David

You really don't need the top starter bolt when you reassemble. My first 164 had a major service right when I got it, and from that point on, it didn't retain it's upper starter bolt. No issues whatsoever.
 

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Are we sure the spacer plate won't crack...? I believe it is always a risk with leaving off fasteners that something will crack many years down the track, though it may be fine for a long time. I remember a cracked engine mount like this (years after a bolt was lost) and it also reminded me of China Airlines Flight 611 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia though that was, of course, very different: a thin aluminium structure repaired 20 years earlier.

I found I could refit the top starter bolt from a position lying under the car if I reached up and over the gearbox with my left hand and guided the socket onto the bolt with my fingertips, while operating the 1/4" extensions and ratchet with my right hand. It will be easier with the exhaust manifold removed - you will have quite good access - but refitting that manifold is going to be a pain - the copper gaskets swivel around. I suggest using new copper gaskets (old ones just won't seal) and stick them in place on the cylinder head with some type of high-temp sealant.

I once forgot to remove tin shield covering back of flywheel under car and had similar frustration to yours.

-Alex
 

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It has been suggested to use a threaded stud for top bolt. It maybe easier to install/remove a nut and washer to/from a stud than to install and remove top bolt.

I currently insert top bolt in starter and attach socket and extension to bolt by spot tying extension to starter housing before I put starter in place but thinking about trying the stud idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I finally received my Valeo clutch kit today and notice that the clutch has four large center springs instead of the eight ( four mid size, four small) that my previous clutch had.

Should I be concerned? Is this what causes the shudder when engaging? The previous clutch had really nice feel before the throwout bearing destroyed itself.

I also notice that the throwout bearing will enage and lock onto the pressure plate witht he first clucth engagment. I'm not really used to this with my previous cars.

Oh, here's a pic of the old throwout bearing.
 

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Alfa 164 push and pull type clutches info

I finally received my Valeo clutch kit today and notice that the clutch has four large center springs instead of the eight ( four mid size, four small) that my previous clutch had.

Should I be concerned? Is this what causes the shudder when engaging? The previous clutch had really nice feel before the throwout bearing destroyed itself.

I also notice that the throwout bearing will enage and lock onto the pressure plate with the first clucth engagment. I'm not really used to this with my previous cars.

Oh, here's a pic of the old throwout bearing.
Sounds like you got a 164S TO bearing. So did you get an S clutch, too.

Notice that push clutch 164B/L TO brg on left the arms face away from bearing and pull clutch 164S/Q/LS the arms face bearing and bearing has lock ring to engage in pressure plate fingers.

Are fingers on pressure plate concave (rounded inward like the inside of a bowl) if so it is a 164S/Q/LS pictured on right or convex (curved or rounded outward like the exterior of a sphere or circle ) if so 164B/L pictured on left?

As for clutch disc Sachs one I have has 4 springs and Valeo one I have has 8 springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It fdefinitely looks like they sent me the 164S clutch kit. Clutch has a Sachs stickers on it but the imprint on the clutch says Valeo.

This great now I get to send it back, and wait for the correct kit to be sent.

Thanks for the help. The pics are great.

Dave
 

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It definitely looks like they sent me the 164S clutch kit. Clutch has a Sach's sticker on it but the imprint on the clutch says Valeo.

This great now I get to send it back, and wait for the correct kit to be sent.

Thanks for the help. The pics are great.

Dave
Let's see a picture of what they sent you. so you are saying it looks like they sent you a pull type 164S pressure plate and TO bearing with pull out to release fingers like my first clutch pressure plate on the right pix above.

Last pix on bottom are both 164B/L push type pressure plates - left Valeo and right Sachs.
 

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Here's a pic.
Yep, Valeo 164S pressure plate and TO Brg and looks like a Sach's disc. So that won't work on a 164B/L without 164S clutch lever set up in bell housing and a 164S bracket for slave cylinder.
 

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Yep, Valeo 164S pressure plate and TO Brg and looks like a Sach's disc. So that won't work on a 164B/L without 164S clutch lever set up in bell housing and a 164S bracket for slave cylinder.
Would that be a feasible upgrade?
I imagine the pull-type clutch might provide a lighter pedal than the push-type.

-Alex
 

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Would that be a feasible upgrade?
I imagine the pull-type clutch might provide a lighter pedal than the push-type.

-Alex
To hard to find all the 164S parts to convert clutch release linkage in bellhousing and slave cylinder bracket to convert slave cylinder position.

Not sure you can get a much easier pedal to push than what I had with a new clutch in our 164B/L's. Never felt a new 164S pull clutch though. My son's was a bear and the S I just sold was not as easy as as puch clutch but again I don't know how old clutch was in it.
 
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