[pc77]

Hello fellow Alfisti. I just received a brand new pair of 45 DCOE 152, and after admiring them for a while, I started noticing a few issues. Now, I never held a set of these babies in my hands before, but I don't think these things are made right. They look like second hand carbs. I got them from a reputable source, but it's Sunday night, and they haven't seen my e-mail or phone complaint yet. They seems to be genuinely made in Spain. I thought I'd let you people take a look and tell me what you think. Issue #1, on one of the carbs, the throttle plates don't close all the way, and they seem to rub on the body. This is the most obvious issue. Issue # 2, the air horn look all different from one another: one is nicely policed, one is dull, one has a grove, and one has a different grove. Issue #3, on the non-sticking throttle plates carb, the supports holding the auxiliary venturi (not sure of the technical term). It seems like the aluminum casting didn't turn out as good. Issue #4, the flange that would mount towards the engine side has pits, and it's not very smooth, it makes me wonder if the soft mount O-rings would properly seal...anyhow, take a look at the few pictures...I'm pretty sure this is not what these carbs are supposed to look like. I'll let you know what the company that sold them to me has to say...in the mean time have at it. Thank you all.

 

[AlvaroSeco]

Oooops....

These venturis look like a bad cheap chinese copy.... the casting burrs are incredible.
Well, in fact, the casting of any Weber ventury I've seen is smooth and beautifully made.

I've got a pair of genunine 40mm Webers, Made in Spain, they a re used, with a bit of dirt, but I'll post a couple of pictures for you to compare...

 

[alfaparticle]

Maybe there is a city in China named Spain.

 

[Little Italian]

Yep.........

Don't think you have real Webers there. The Weber screws don't look like that thru the throttle plates. Where/Who did you order these from?

 

[Gordon Raymond]

This is an issue with Webers from Spain. I have many customer complaints about quality, as well as final fit and finish issues. A well known US supplier of the Spanish 45DCOE's does the extra step of correcting factory build issues before he sells them to customers.
The throttle plate screw issue, and fins on castings is a big issue, but there are others. I just repaired a pump jet hole, cast into the body at an angle!
The Spanish Weber lacks the quality of the Italian original. The problems can be corrected, but you need to weigh the correction costs against the rebuild or restoration costs of old Italian 45DCOE's.
I have brought the build quality of the Spanish Weber up to the quality of an Italian Weber, in my restoration business. This involves labor which in turn costs money. See the pictures below of 152's rebuilt and refinished to look like the original, old style, Italian Weber.
If you note an AMERICAN supplier, that charges a bit more for his Spanish Webers, inquire about the throttle plate screws. If they are flush, these have had extra work applied HERE in the US, and you can be sure your extra money paid, was well spent.
From my experience.

 

[pc77]

Oooops....

These venturis look like a bad cheap chinese copy.... the casting burrs are incredible.
Well, in fact, the casting of any Weber ventury I've seen is smooth and beautifully made.

I've got a pair of genunine 40mm Webers, Made in Spain, they a re used, with a bit of dirt, but I'll post a couple of pictures for you to compare...

The box they came in sais WEBCON, which apparently is a Spanish Weber supplier out of England...

 

[pc77]

Gordon, thanks for the pictures. Yes these look beautiful. I hear what you are saying... The supplier I got them from (xxxxxxx) acknowledged and said they'd pick the best looking pair and replace mine. Somehow this still doesn't go quite right with me...I understood the fact that they didn't check them out when they arrived, but I still wonder.

 

[pc77]

I tried to add more pix, but why is it asking for my URL address???

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Sounds like a dirty suggestion of some kind doesn't it?
Anyway, I just received another pair of Spanish Webers for some modifications. They too were in WEBCON boxes. A note in the boxes says "Webcon UK Ltd.". Same choke issues.
I did some work on them with a Dremil tool, and will media blast tomorrow. Below are pictures of reworked chokes not finished.
I'm going to figure labor very closely on these. It may be less expensive to order them without chokes, and install the higher quality chokes from Pierce or other suppliers. I'll know soon.

 

[alfaparticle]

I have a good set of 36mm venturis that I will sell if you need them.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

The secondaries are particularly horrid on these Ed. The primaries can clean up fine with a flap wheel, or even a good file, and a little wet or dry paper polish.
More pictures tomorrow.

 

[pc77]

So Gordon, what about these screws people above mentioned? I don't think I'm dealing with chinese here, but it seems like the cost reduction and quality out of Spain is deteriorating by the minute. Having flush screws here means countersinking the shaft, and fitting a shorter flat-head screw. Before I sent the carbs back earlier, I took out one of the screws from the throttle plate, and the shaft wasn't countersunk. When the screw is put back, it stick out from the other side almost 1/8".

 

[Little Italian]

I wasn't aware there was such poor quality coming from Weber. Is the same true for the replacement parts. I was just getting ready to order some 35 mm venturi for my 40 DCOEs plus a bunch of repair parts. Should I be extra careful? I usually shop from Pierce or 1750GTV on ebay.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Pierce, 1750 and FastRoadCars in G.B. are excellent dealers, with high quality products.

Below is a picture of the butterfly screws on a Spanish 45DCOE152 as MODIFIED for racing. Both ends of the screws are flush with the butterfly bar. These are available, from a good Alfa racing parts supplier, Paul Spruell.
For STREET use and most performance street use, this modification is not absolutely necessary. On the other hand, it sure doesn't hurt anything! If you look at an Italian 45DCOE9, the difference in build quality is obvious.

 

[pc77]

Ok, well, now that you mentioned Paul Spruell....that's exactly where I got these from. Your email also explains why Pierce, for example, lists a set of DCOE 152 for $385 each or so, and a set of DCOE 9 for $425 each or so...How educational this thread has been for me....

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Here is the issue Paolo. Current quality is lacking. Paul does not have the labor force to "rework" each 45DCOE152. They are currently the only game in town as far as NEW 45 mm Webers at a lower price. Paul does not want to get into the business of selling rebuilt used Webers. In order to get the quality he wishes, he needs an outside contractor to see exactly what it costs to make a quality Weber from the NEW available Spanish Weber. That is what I am doing, today, in fact. The photo's I've posted are a pair of re-worked, new, 45DCOE152's I am building for Paul to determine cost, and he will determine marketability. He may sell two versions when we are done, I do not know, factory Spanish and reworked Spruell Spanish.

As you note, there is a cost difference between GOOD used 45 mm Webers, and those available currently new. There is no doubt the DCOE152 design has useful features that are lacking in the older Italian Webers. They are designed to be adaptable to many applications.

With the older Weber carburetors, customers send them to me, and request I rebuild them to "as-new" condition, cosmetically restored or not, and request I jet and choke them, set-them-up, for their application. This work can easily cost as much as the initial purchase price. I must buy parts, and expend labor. I must keep my customers 100% satisfied with my work, and support myself.

While we are weighing all these factors, do not give up on your 152's. DCOE 9's will still require parts like chokes and jets for your application. None of the Weber parts sources I mentioned in earlier posts sell cheap parts. Quality does cost money.

In short, we need to find out if current 152's are viable in the market-place. Again, as mentioned, for most applications, they may be fine, as they are.

More soon ...

 

[pc77]

What a small world afterall...By all means I'm on board with quality, modifications, labor and price. I am less than a yearl old on this particular market, and Paul has already helped me out before, and that is why I decided to get the carbs from him, he simply knows what's going on. All of this is helping me put things into prospective as far as what to expect when I buy such items, especially carburetors, since they are sophisticated and expensive. I just did not expect all that we have been discussing about, especially the casting issues (which I don't hold against Paul by all means). Thanks to you now the picture is a lot clearer. Should I have the need to modify these carbs in the future, I'll shoot you a private email, and you can perhaps give me an estimate or two. Keep 'em coming.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Here is just a little more work. Primary and secondary chokes have had all flashing (casting marks) removed, and have been media blasted.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

The first two pictures are a before picture, and an after picture of the same Weber. Next is the finished butterflies and chokes.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

Finally a view through the cleaned up bore. A considerable improvement.