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Nice! I have to tackle that, got no flashers on mine. I assume this is under dash installation, where do you splice into the turn signal wiring? And which wire does 49A connects to on the turn signal stack? Thanks ahead
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I'll follow this up with some diagrams but for now I'll try to walk through it:

Overview:
This takes the place of the turn signal flasher and the emergency flasher and emergency flasher relay that is found on (at least) Duettos and GTVs with the toggle switch under the dash. The left side EP-35 controls the turn signals only and the EL-45 relay and right side EP-35 flasher work in tandem to control the 4 way flashers.

Turn Signals:
The turn signal wires (the red the black wires) come from the factory flasher can and plug into the left side EP-35. The red wire is 12VDC and comes from the toggle switch and powers the flasher at #30.

The black wire is the flasher output (#49A) that goes to the turn signal stalk.

The other black wire (#49) is a ground and is daisy chained with the other EP-35 and the EL-45 relay.

The Emergency Flashers:
The red/black wire provides 12VDC to both the Relay (#30)and the right side Flasher (#49). These are daily chained and come from the toggle switch.

The Blue (#87) and Blue/Black (#87A) wires are the output wires that go to the lights. These are currently plugged (or screwed) into the flasher relay.

The green wire connects the right side flasher output (#49A) to the input of the RL-45 Relay input (#86).

The black wires (#85 and #31) are grounds and are daisy chained with the other EP-35.

In practice, the toggle switch is in the turn signal position which powers the turn signals when you turn the turn signal wand right or left. No power goes to the 4 way side.

Flipping the switch to the emergency side disconnects the turn signal flasher and powers the 4 way flashers. The front and rear turn signals alternate right and left as the relays #87 and #87A outputs relay are turned on and off by the EP-35 flasher.
 

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Rich thanks a lot for doing this :smile2:

I am working on S2 1750 without 4 way flasher wiring (a Euro market thing?) Here is a diagram (Note that I erased some of the wiring not related to this installation). I will reread your post when I get home, bit confused and edit this post later.

OK, so I can take #3 / L on flasher on my diagram and plug into 49A (turn signal stalk) on your diagram. Splice into blue and blue/black 87 87A (Turn signal wiring) and it should work. For dashboard flasher indicator I could add #6 to 49A (so #3 and 6 both to 49A) and that would light up indicator during left/right turning but not on 4 ways.

If I could make a dash indicator to work on both turn signals and 4 way flasher, it would be perfect....Is there a relay thingie that I can use on left and right sides of the turn signal wiring to power one bulb (Single indicator on dash). Any ideas? :001_unsure:
 

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I went a simple way with just a single new switch and piggy back connectors in 3 locations to interface with the existing spade connections (flasher and dash light indicators). This left the stock wiring intact and used the stock flasher. I just had to mount the DP switch under the dash (used a covered toggle).

When I flip the toggle the stalk is bypassed and power sent to the turn signals via the dash light indicators using the same connection that otherwise comes from the stalk.

Of course my GTV didn't have a stock hazard switch so the above circuit may be better for a different situation.
I think I can see above S2s have a single turn signal indicator vs. the two on an S1 as well as a different flasher. Hmm
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Rich thanks a lot for doing this :smile2:

I am working on S2 1750 without 4 way flasher wiring (a Euro market thing?) Here is a diagram (Note that I erased some of the wiring not related to this installation). I will reread your post when I get home, bit confused and edit this post later.

OK, so I can take #3 / L on flasher on my diagram and plug into 49A (turn signal stalk) on your diagram. Splice into blue and blue/black 87 87A (Turn signal wiring) and it should work. For dashboard flasher indicator I could add #6 to 49A (so #3 and 6 both to 49A) and that would light up indicator during left/right turning but not on 4 ways.

If I could make a dash indicator to work on both turn signals and 4 way flasher, it would be perfect....Is there a relay thingie that I can use on left and right sides of the turn signal wiring to power one bulb (Single indicator on dash). Any ideas? :001_unsure:
That looks right to me. As far as the dash indicator, I wonder if you could run a wire from 87 (or 87A) to the dash light. It should blink on and off with whichever output you tie into. I think... make sure to have plenty of extra fuses...>:)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here are some clips from Papajam's wiring diagram.

The first is a '69 Spider. This is basically a drop in replacement. I didn't mention but I superglue the three items together and then mount it under the dash where the factory flasher is usually mounted. This cleans up the engine bay a bit as the E flasher/Relays are normally mounted on the driver's side firewall.

'69 Spider.JPG



The '69 GTV is basically the same but the wiring diagram isn't quite as specific about the wiring.

'69 GTV Flashers.JPG



The '66 Spider is again a drop in but the output wires (87 and 87A or B) are white/black and yellow/black instead of blue and blue/black.

'66 Spider Factory Flashers.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A word about the toggle switches. I have yet to understand the factory toggles. I pin them out so that I know what terminal does what and ignore the numbers. It might be wise to replace the factory toggle with an aftermarket toggle that gives you the Dual Throw, Single Pole properties. You should be able to use the existing power wires, just again pin them out so you know that you are powering 12 VDC exclusively to either the turn signals or the 4 ways both not both simultaneously.
 

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A word about the toggle switches. I have yet to understand the factory toggles. I pin them out so that I know what terminal does what and ignore the numbers. It might be wise to replace the factory toggle with an aftermarket toggle that gives you the Dual Throw, Single Pole properties. You should be able to use the existing power wires, just again pin them out so you know that you are powering 12 VDC exclusively to either the turn signals or the 4 ways both not both simultaneously.
I'll test my spare Alfa switches and see what I got. Shouldn't a 24VDC brighten up the lights a bit? :grin2:

That looks right to me. As far as the dash indicator, I wonder if you could run a wire from 87 (or 87A) to the dash light. It should blink on and off with whichever output you tie into. I think... make sure to have plenty of extra fuses...>:)
That would make indicator light work only on left or right turn as each (87 and 87A) power different sides of the turn signal wiring, correct?
This whole thing will have to pass spark and smoke-free test on the bench before it goes anywhere near my 36 year old wiring >:)

Thanks for the wiring diagrams, I think by retaining original flasher with P (#6) output and using it instead of the Novita EP-35 that powers the turn signals and splicing 87 into P (#6) would work. Something like this (borrowing your diagram):

Edit: WRONG diagram!!!! See post #10 and 11
 

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That would make indicator light work only on left or right turn as each (87 and 87A) power different sides of the turn signal wiring
If you add a couple of diodes to the circuit - as BostonBertone shows in post #5 - you can connect both 87 and 87a to the single indicator light. The indicator will flash for both L or R turn signals and current won't pass from the L circuit to the R (or visa versa).



Nakagtv: I understand that you added the wire between terminal P6 on the original E-flasher and terminal 87 on the Novita RL-45 to flash the dash indicator when the emergency flashers are on. But using the normal turn signals with that connection will cause power to the indicator light to bleed into whichever side of the turn signals is driven off Novita RL-45 terminal 87. So for either the L or R turn signal, both sides would flash. Putting a diode in that connection would prevent current from flowing in that direction.
 

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If you add a couple of diodes to the circuit - as BostonBertone shows in post #5 - you can connect both 87 and 87a to the single indicator light. The indicator will flash for both L or R turn signals and current won't pass from the L circuit to the R (or visa versa).



Nakagtv: I understand that you added the wire between terminal P6 on the original E-flasher and terminal 87 on the Novita RL-45 to flash the dash indicator when the emergency flashers are on. But using the normal turn signals with that connection will cause power to the indicator light to bleed into whichever side of the turn signals is driven off Novita RL-45 terminal 87. So for either the L or R turn signal, both sides would flash. Putting a diode in that connection would prevent current from flowing in that direction.
Thank you Mr.Jay, you keep saving my ***, sometimes it's good to have a watchful eye looking over your shoulder. I'll look into diodes and try to pick the correct one.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
...I think by retaining original flasher with P (#6) output and using it instead of the Novita EP-35 that powers the turn signals ...
It seems to me that when I tried using the factory flasher with the modern 4 way circuit I had a problem and something wouldn't work. But it's definitely worth trying. I will say I like the solid state boxes and figure that once I mount them under the dash it's the last time I'll see them...
 

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would this be the right size diode for the job?
Sure, those would work. 10 amps is more than sufficient - the indicator light (or turn signals) draw far less than that. My rusty old memory tells me that Schottky diodes are high performance - they switch faster than conventional diodes - but at $3.20 for twenty (with free shipping), who cares?
 

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It seems to me that when I tried using the factory flasher with the modern 4 way circuit I had a problem and something wouldn't work. But it's definitely worth trying. I will say I like the solid state boxes and figure that once I mount them under the dash it's the last time I'll see them...
I'll go get me some reelais, let you know what happends tonight:grin2:
 

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Little update. I was in rush to install this and forgot to attach the ground wire. No sparks or burnt fuses, but 4 way flasher would only turn one side of turn signals without blinking and turn signals worked fine. Will finish up tonight
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I hooked up mine on a '66 Spider today. Flipped the switch and after a few seconds smoke started pouring out of the steering wheel hub. Went through all the wiring carefully and tried again... same thing. Swapped back the factory units, flipped the switch... same thing. I finally pulled the steering wheel and watched as smoke would billow out from the stalk. I figured I was melting insulation but none of the wires looked damaged. But when I brushed up against the little return spring it was red hot. Looking at it a bit more I realized that it was shorting out on the bottom terminal and the smoke was coming from the oil that was on the spring.

spring.jpg

A new spring, properly mounted and no more smoke...
 

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Perhaps having a grounded spring right next to a source of +12V was not Jaeger's best design.

Looks like your spring is now destroyed - the heat has de-tempered it. You can see the coils have expanded below the steering shaft. I've never done this, but putting a short length of shrink tubing over the lower end of the spring would prevent shorts.
 

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Did use short pieces of tubing when I replaced broken spring on mine as Jay suggests. Good you caught that in time, electrical fires scare the **** me and haven't been under the dash yet makes it even worse. When dash comes off I'll clean up the wiring mess that I have under there.

Flasher update: I found Biltema Art.42-143 flasher relay on the car connected as shown on Papajam's diagram I posted. It has 42, 46, 92w terminals (any Scandinavian members have a diagram of this relay?) Biltema does not list it anymore
Rele - Biltema

Individual circuits alone work including the dash indicator. When I plug everything:

- 4 way flashers + dash indicator work
- On Left turn signal dash indicator and all 3 turn lights work, but Biltema Flasher makes noise
- On Right turn dash signal indicator stays solid on

Here's what I have tried so far: test the switch, disconnect line with a Diode, switching Diode conn. from 87 to 87a nothing changes

Only when i unplug 87a (center prong on generic SPDT relay. could not find Novita RL45 locally) flasher light stops making noise and dash indicator starts to blink instead solid. Here's a video clip:


 

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