Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 263 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With bent valves in 5 of the 6 cylinders, I have nothing better to do than remove the heads and see how bad things are. Since the front head is the "easy" one I have stripped the top of the engine, removing everything except the alternator and the exhaust manifold.

1. I have removed the 3 nuts on top of the front exhaust heat shield, but it seems to be attached somewhere else. Are there more attachment point?

2. I have removed the passenger-side headlight and the two long bolts that attach the alternator to it's bracket, but it won't move either.

For both of these, the CarDisc is a little light on the details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
1. one more at the bottom front side of the heatshield.

2. Not sure if there is any trick. It was very easy remove for me. May be the bolts are stuck???

tj
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,810 Posts
1. one more at the bottom front side of the heatshield.

2. Not sure if there is any trick. It was very easy remove for me. May be the bolts are stuck???

tj

Here is picture from parts CD: Looks like a fourth nut down on bottom of heat shield.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,506 Posts
Is there a 12V front exhaust heat shield? or supposed to be? I don't remember ever seeing one.... Maybe I had my eyes closed?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,810 Posts
No front heat shield on 12v engine no need as headers are cast iron not steel tubing like 24v.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the diagrams.

I worked on spiders today, so the heat shield will have to wait until tomorrow evening.

I have a line on a 164S. The owner is a friend who ran an espresso machine company here. A dealer of Astorias. He just turned 65 and has decided to return to Italy for his retirement. Not needing Alfas on two continents, the S is for sale, along with a sweet 1958 Fiat 1100. Unfortunately, his has already returned and his children (who are in possession of the car) are not empowered to make any deals.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,810 Posts
Those cars were listed in this month's Advocate hope it works out for both of you. I understand his lot was used for last two autocrosses our chapter put on there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Those cars were listed in this month's Advocate hope it works out for both of you. I understand his lot was used for last two autocrosses our chapter put on there.
Yep. It was buckets of fun. Umberto has this vintage cloth driver's/aviator's helmet he wore when flogging the Fiat around the course.

Quite a sight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Hi John, there is am active Alfa guy here in Charlotte that is dying to sell a 91S not in great condition, however it runs fine and he is asking less than 2 grand. I believe the car is listed on ebay and not really sure if it is still available let me know if interested.

Bye

Amedeo
1994 164Q (the only one)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hi John, there is am active Alfa guy here in Charlotte that is dying to sell a 91S not in great condition, however it runs fine and he is asking less than 2 grand. I believe the car is listed on ebay and not really sure if it is still available let me know if interested.

Bye

Amedeo
1994 164Q (the only one)
Amedeo,
I saw it on Ebay. A little tatty, but not bad looking. I am hoping to hear from Umberto soon.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Okay.
The front head is off. Several of the manifold studs came out in the process.
The good news is that there are no holes in pistons 4-5-6. Here are some pics:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
...now, the front head.
Now, I've seen bent valves before. But these don't look so bad:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
For grins and giggles...

I think I'll put the plugs in and fill the chambers with fluid; just to see the leakage.

Maybe blow some compressed air into the ports....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,506 Posts
Even on our 12V S engine which slipped two teeth per cam in the P.O.s case (broken tensioner spring, I believe), eight of twelve valves were bent -- all intakes and two exhausts. The car would run, but I didn't make a compression check. The shop pointed out the uneven pattern of contact markings on the valve head periphery as their principal flag for bent valves. The slightest bend will distort the contact pattern. I have the valves but haven't yet set them all up side by side on a flat surface. I plan to do this to see how much bent they are. Check out Sean's engine (elite....) with a couple of valve heads broken off inside the cylinder to see what leaving a stressed valve in place might do. Just my suspicions, of course.

Michael
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,810 Posts
With cams out or lobes set so valves are fully closed my head shop has a vacuum bench set up to see if valves seated and will hold a vacuum.

Mr. T. pretty easy to see bent valves by chucking them up in an electric drill motor.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Yeah, it probably doesn't take much to mess up the valve's "contact patch" with the seat.

Any thoughts on the health of the guides? Previous to this, I never had any oil consumption problems.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,810 Posts
If valves not bent much guides probably OK. Prices for 24v intake guides very expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,506 Posts
I can only say that the shop that tended my heads reported that the guides were healthy, and that if they'd been replaced, it wouldn't have been an improvement. (I supplied all valve guides). Maybe they weren't tooled for it, or maybe the guides looked great at 75k miles.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
The numbers.

I'm running the numbers on the parts required to rebuild the heads: It looks like it will be roughly $2000, without valve guides or labor.

I would farm-out the valve work. Everything else, I can do.

I spoke with the mechanic (Il Dottore, in Raleigh, NC) who has serviced the car in the past about the wisdom of re-building. He does quality work and I respect his opinion greatly. He believes that despite the depressed values for the 24V cars, their relative rarity makes them worth keeping intact.

The cars is in good shape otherwise; The normal quirks are evident, like Klingon-language climate control, balky sunroof, airbag light, and an appetite for front strut bearings. The body has a few stone chips but is completely rust free and the paint is very good. The interior shows some cracking of the front seats (Burgundy leather. Kinda rare) but the carpet is almost unworn.

Am I talking myself into something here?
 
1 - 20 of 263 Posts
Top