33 1.7ie Flambe!

3258 Views 16 Replies 4 Participants Last post by getagrip, Oct 28, 2007

getagrip

Discussion Starter · Oct 19, 2007

Uh oh, spaghetti O.

My 33 1.7 8V, which my brother in law has been driving for the past 6 months has had an unfortunate cooking experience. It looks like corrosion in the thermo fan wiring connector block has built up enough resistance for it to draw so much current through the whole circuit that it has burnt out that conductor right back to the firewall. Bugga.

Other than frying that wire and scorching a couple of other connector blocks, the damage isnt too bad and I've re routed a new wire and I think eliminated the other shorts etc as well, but now....

I cant find a dead fuse, (well obviously, it tried to the burn the car out!) and I have no ignition, warning lights are all dead etc. Starter motor cranks, lights work and most other circuits seem to be OK.

So, does anybody know if there is a main ignition fuse somewhere not obvious? Have I killed the computer? (Where is the bloody computer!) I've been looking through the various manuals etc but you pretty much need extra sensory perception to decipher them, as well as a lot of patience.

Anyone been there?

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

Face

· #2 · Oct 19, 2007

Well, what year car is this? Has it got the blade fuse type fuse holder under the dash, or the older style one like the suds-sprints in the engine compartment?
The engine management computer has no direct connection to the fan, so that will probably be ok!

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 19, 2007

Face said:
Well, what year car is this? Has it got the blade fuse type fuse holder under the dash, or the older style one like the suds-sprints in the engine compartment?
The engine management computer has no direct connection to the fan, so that will probably be ok!

Hey Face. It's an '89 1.7ie with fuses under the hood. There is a bank of ceramic type fuses, with a smaller bank under that, but they all seem OK. I'll try and post a photo and see if anyone recognises it. The temp sender (on the radiator itself) also looks to be part of the same circuit, and suffered some damage as well. My problem may have been a short in either this or the fan unit as well. I'll test them both.

Face

· #4 · Oct 19, 2007

Well, as I suspected.. thats not too good. Check the diagram attached.From factory in this setup (fuses under hood, as in sprints) that circuit is NOT fused! the +12v goes to the thermal switch from the joined unfused side of the 3 ignition powered fuses, which gets the power directly from the ignition switch..no relay or any fuse in there neither...

So what this all means is, that the ignitionswitch itself could be fried...

, or its just oxidation on the fuse holders... I would open up the backside of the fuseholder and check that too, than clean all the fuseholders/fuses and with the ignitionswitch on, verify existence of +12v on the fused side of those 3 fuses.
If not there, than the switch itself is probably shot...

See less See more

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 19, 2007

Thanks heaps Face. I will check all of that today. I'm certainly not getting power to a number of the fuses in the main fuse block, so that is sounding promising.

I'll whip the cover off the steering column and check the switch. I havent looked in there yet.

Why would they not fuse that circuit? (I cant think of a valid reason!).

Face

· #6 · Oct 20, 2007

getagrip said:
Why would they not fuse that circuit? (I cant think of a valid reason!).

and why didn't they fuse+relay the ignition switch(etc.)?

I tell you why, becouse they are italians, and this electrical system is almost the same since the Sud times.. and adding more fuses/relays would have meant, getting a new fuseholder...

which wasn't "costeffective" they rather used this whole crappy setup.. or something...

the series 3 33 electric system is much-much better...

dave.armstrong

· #7 · Oct 20, 2007

Hello face

I am visiting Budapest from the 3-6th November.

Is their anything good Alfa wise to visit?

dave

enri

· #8 · Oct 21, 2007

that circuit is not fused on my early model car too.
i think its because if the fuse blew your motor with flambe, so your better off with the occasional fire!
and its not because of the limited space in the fuse box. even my early model has an auxilary fuse box.(the little black to the side of the main fuse box in the photo)
the circuit is linked to the +coil and ignition swich and relays. a burnt out wire can look pale but when you touch it the insulation crumbles and it breaks easily.
nice job on a sunny suday with a test lamp. keeps you in touch with your car!

See less See more

Face

· #9 · Oct 21, 2007

Better of with an occassional fire... LOL

That was and will never be a valid explanation in my opinion... The suds/sprints/series1and 2 33-s electric system is just crap...who ever designed it, was just crazy... having so many unfused wires in a car is just insane..

No postive wire should ever be unfused... They skimped where they could.. way too thin wires,unfused cicuits, not relaying lights/ignition etc.etc... alfa electrics

Thats why i remade all of my wireing, relayed everything, and put blade fuses everywhere.No circuit is unprotected..

enri said:
that circuit is not fused on my early model car too.
i think its because if the fuse blew your motor with flambe, so your better off with the occasional fire!
and its not because of the limited space in the fuse box. even my early model has an auxilary fuse box.(the little black to the side of the main fuse box in the photo)

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 21, 2007

Face said:
Better of with an occassional fire... LOL That was and will never be a valid explanation in my opinion... The suds/sprints/series1and 2 33-s electric system is just crap...who ever designed it, was just crazy... having so many unfused wires in a car is just insane.. No postive wire should ever be unfused... They skimped where they could.. way too thin wires,unfused cicuits, not relaying lights/ignition etc.etc... alfa electrics
Thats why i remade all of my wireing, relayed everything, and put blade fuses everywhere.No circuit is unprotected..

Nah, not a fan of occasional fires either. I think your explanation is spot on Face. It's certainly not an excuse but it is an explanation. I will make sure that I incorporate at least In Line fuses where necessary.

Despite Italian electrics having a poor reputation, my experiences with them on numerous Ducati's, Vespa's and now Alfa's has always been really good. I guess they got me this time though!

I managed to get the cover off the steering column this morning, (early, before coffee, not a good look) and sure enough, there is ample evidence of bubbled wiring, (heat) welded connectors etc so your diagnosis is looking good Face.

Next step will be extracting the Ignition Switch to assess the damage. I should be looking up the manual right now, but I have been doing this and watching the "worm". Anyone care to give me tips on its extraction? (the switch, not the worm).

See less See more

enri

· #11 · Oct 21, 2007

i dssagree. with the exception of the blinker combination switch, my alfasuds electrics have been 100% reliable. you should try owning an old alfetta or english car!
could you imagine having a blown motor due to it overheating because of a fuse to the fan? an inline fuse or some fusable wire would cost next to nothing to install new, but to rebuild a motor!!
to remove the ignition barrell normally look for a little screw, mabey tamperproof head and the unit should pull out. if you are unlucky the head of the terminal connecter will have to be dissasembled to pull it through.

Face

· #12 · Oct 21, 2007

enri said:
could you imagine having a blown motor due to it overheating because of a fuse to the fan?

That could all be true, if there wasn't the water tempereture gauge and the high water temp warning lamp...

.. oh and every car after the late 80's(and many makers earlier too..) I came across (series III 33s too) have that circuit fused from factory.... then only a fused +12v wire is a good +12v wire

But this is no matter worth arguing about

enri

· #13 · Oct 21, 2007

Face said:
That could all be true, if there wasn't the water tempereture gauge and the high water temp warning lamp..... oh

But this is no matter worth arguing about

dont forget, women drivers drive alfas too.

there is probably another reason for it. i just cant believe its cost related

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 21, 2007

3am post enri? Does that mean you know who the 07 F1 champion is? Your a dedicated man!

Despite my earlier post about reliability....my 164 developed corrosion in the thermo fan power lead connector a couple of years ago which prevented the fan starting up when it should, and I am watching the gauge climbing, climbing then poof! steam everywhere! Hmm. Wont start etc etc. In a true worst case scenario, the heater core (under the dash) has blown out and of course doused the computer in boiling glycol, promptly killing it. You dont need to be a woman driver to ignore temp gauges!

enri

· #15 · Oct 21, 2007

getagrip said:
3am post enri? Does that mean you know who the 07 F1 champion is? Your a dedicated man!

im so happy
even kimi raikkonen managed a smile

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #16 · Oct 21, 2007

enri said:
getagrip said:

3am post enri? Does that mean you know who the 07 F1 champion is? Your a dedicated man!

im so happy
even kimi raikkonen managed a smile

Click to expand...

Go the red ones!

getagrip

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 28, 2007

Face said:
So what this all means is, that the ignitionswitch itself could be fried... , or its just oxidation on the fuse holders... I would open up the backside of the fuseholder and check that too, than clean all the fuseholders/fuses and with the ignitionswitch on, verify existence of +12v on the fused side of those 3 fuses.
If not there, than the switch itself is probably shot...

Your a legend Face. You got it in one.

I finally managed to get around to extracting the ingnition lock and switch today, (and thanks enri, there is a little screw the manual calls a broken head screw????? ***....which looks like a rivet head, but with a little judicous tapping, screws out easily) and after some diddling around....bypassed the switch, (hotwiring it) and it sparked straight up. Bingo!

Thanks for your help fella's.

So, I am hunting down a switch and a thermo fan, and she should be back in business. I thought there was someone on the BB wrecking a 1.7 but I cant find it? Anyone know who that was?

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.