[AlfaTango1]

Hey there gang! While my 2.5 only has 76,000 miles and runs great I still, of course would love another 40 to 50 hp and am thinking of a 3.0 swap. First off let me say that I don't want a $15,000 or more project nor am I looking for crazy 300+ hp. I'm looking at 200 to 240 max. Also I'm in California so emmisions are a factor. Am I correct in assuming that a 3.0 Milano with say, S cams would get close to 200 hp and with cat and all sensors hooked up pass Cali smog?

What are the pitfalls and benefits of 164 12/24, engine management, coil packs vs dizzy... I know it's a bunch to ask but I know this is the place.

Thanks in advance!
Glenn

 

[hughqv]

If your current engine is sweet, instead of buying a shagged 3.0 which will need heads rebuilt, GG blower?

 

[AlfaTango1]

I would love a GG blower but here in California a blower is not approved for a street car. Yes there are many newer cars that have CARB (California Air Resource Board) approved super chargers but not for an 84 GTV6 unfotunately.

 

[hughqv]

wow that sucks! Dreading the days where the law get tough on us, but i dont see that happening for a while (touch wood) I'm sure you could squeeze 200hp out of a 3.0 with cams and some EM. But there are definitely wiser people on here that could answer that better.

 

[AlfaTango1]

Yeah out here a manufacturer would have to have CARB test the blower (or cam, etc) for a specific vehicle and show it does not increase emmisions, so in this case Eaton and since the market is very small I don't think I could convince them to undergo the process.

 

[slyalfa]

I have not ran mine on a dyno but it feels much beter then the old 3L I had.
I think is it around 200hp now

I got a S block and used the block and heads cams and pistons. (wanted the oil squrters)

I used my old 3L crank and flywheel and pullys so I did not have to have it balanced.
I use my own VEMS ECU to run it. I also used the 164 intakes as they are tuned to the S cams.

my only regret was not geting new pistins and liners. I honed and put on new rings but I burn oil.
it might be the heads as I used the crapy black valve stem seals?

I would say don't skimp run new valves guides and use the green seals IAP or the white centerline do not use the black in the gaskit kit. get new liners/pistions
find a S block or one after the year when the oil squrters were in all.
get a 3L flywheel (APE) then have it ballenced to the crank and front pully.

if you can use the 164 pully I would then you get the trigger on the crank. you can put it on the V belt type but it is a pain. that is what I did so I would not have to rebalance. but I think it would be easy to just switch the pullys on the alt and AC to use the ribbed type. and just use 2 small ones ran just like the V belts were run.

I had to do a lot of milling on mine to reduce the thickness of the trigger ring so it would not hit the water pump pully.

 

[ToonRboy]

Best bet would be a 164S swap - that would get you in the power range you're looking for right off the bat (I would retain the motronic). 164's can be had very cheap, (except 24v QV). You'll be wise to perform an overhaul of whatever you source. The 3.0 Verde swap is probably the most common swap and is a direct install. You won't reach your numbers though without further modifications. It's very difficult to take a small displacement motor (< 3.0), make that kind of power and pass smog tango1.

One has to be realistic about the kind of money you want to spend and the amount of time you have to iron everything out. -Just look at all the projects going on with power hungry alfisti. They, without exception, take bookoo time and effort and rarely get cost effective results.

If you just want extra power sometimes (like, when eyballed by a ricer at the traffic light) get yourself a 50-shot of nitros (make sure you use a fogger style nozzle) - you can do this for < $500.00.
NOS Sniper Universal EFI Wet Kit - JEGS

I'd say keep that low mileage beauty 2.5, up the compression (10.5-11.5:1) by either going forged pistons or (less $$) having the heads milled. Get yourself a pair of Milano Verde cams (reasonable as opposed to "S" cams - hell, you might be able to get someone to give 'em to you!) and lastly, get a Split-Second MAF conversion kit. IMO this is better than going full-blown aftermarket EMS for those with limited skills, time, & money. Split Second - this system opens up the intake by replacing the AFM, and piggy-backs the stock ECU (actually, intercepts) and adds programmability (PSC1). You might consider a Saab RRFPR as well NEW Rising Rate Non Turbo FPR. Or, get a set of bigger injectors - Bosch 0280150151/152
Bosch Injectors - Alpha Romeo, Fiat & Jaguar Fuel Injectors

If you have any money left over, get your plenum polished, Extrude-honed, or teflon coated.

Note: The PSC-1 is offered in different models so you'll have to order the right one. Reason being is the fuel pump switch and air temp sensor in the stock AFM have to be accounted for.

Coil packs are nice, but engines have been running fine on single coil technology for 90 out of the 99 years of automobile history, so IMO a waste of money tango1.

 

[Barbalatte]

Well, no one actuall answered his question. 12V or 24V?

What are the benifits of both?
I'm the same boat, I'm in the process of swapping a 3 litre out a 75/Milano into my GTV6 2.5 Litre.

 

[MALDI]

The Split Second mass airflow sensor is interesting but apparently does NOT work with L-Jetronic systems:

FC1

Wedsite says they MAY offer a solution.

Anyone here ever tried it?

Edit: I found on the site an application for an Alfa V6:

Alfa V6

 

[AlfaTango1]

All the info has been very helpfull and I have disected and digested it all. what I think I'm going to do is keep my current 2.5 the way it is and purchase a 3.0 that has allready been converted. I'll look for a clean (not perfect) rust free car perferably with power steering conversion too and go from there. In the end it boiled down to cost. I'm picking up a Spider in the next few weeks and also want a GTV or Berlina so a conversion project is not cost efficeint at the moment. As far as set up goes it will boil down to what will pass California emmisions so very likely a 3.0 Milano or 12V S motor with GTV6/Milano intakes. Thanks for all the help.

 

[junglejustice]

Well, no one actuall answered his question. 12V or 24V? What are the benifits of both? I'm the same boat, I'm in the process of swapping a 3 litre out a 75/Milano into my GTV6 2.5 Litre.

8-9K (about half of what you said that you did not want to spend), buys you a 270 horsepower 24 valve engine - fully-converted and ready to drop right in to any transaxle RWD Alfa.

This includes the proper oval-port custom headers to fit this motor in your chassis, coil-packs, reconditioned injectors and rails, custom intake plenum & 44mm GTA intake runners, GTA Stage I or Stage II custom cams, a custom plug-and-play wiring harness, sump conversion, & the oil-pump conversion already done for you, as well as the flywheel conversion done and then finally a GoTech Pro engine management system.

Any decent tuning shop should be able to get the car to pass emissions (provided that you have an O2 sensor, cats etc on there and the motor professionally tuned on a dyno...)

Most of you guys know how I feel about the 24 valve motors - I loved them and just can't say enough about them. I like the old 12 valvers, but as far as this version of a motor in this car, it is EXACTLY what the little GTV6 needs to do it justice!

 

[AlfaTango1]

Smog output is not really the issue I should have said inspection/visual, it's the engine swap that the CalFed boys do not like. Why, beats me but if you get a hard nose tech savvy guy and he sees 24V and coil packs he can give you the thumbs down no matter the output of NOX and the like. I know there are a few who have done it and went to a smog ref and got them to let it pass visual but you know how that can, bad day with the boss or the wife and ehhhhggg No Soup For You!