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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Esteemed Alfisti (to borrow a greeting from our esteemed convention Co-Chairman):

Even though the 164 ended its career here in North America at the end of 1995, it soldiered on for another two or three years in other markets. Does anyone know if an improved timing belt tensioner was available after the time the 164 left our shores, up to the time it ceased production? Did Alfa ever make any updates to that part number at all, or did it remain unchanged?

I appreciate any feedback. Yes, we're considering getting another LS back in our driveway... maybe... if the right car comes along. We had a great champagne/tan '94, which we sold to fellow Alfista Sam G. waaaaay back when. But Irene loves the look of the LS in white, and I have to admit I too salivated over a pristine white one at our recent convention here in Lexington.

We'll see....

Dave in Ky
aka alfaloco
 

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Esteemed Alfisti (to borrow a greeting from our esteemed convention Co-Chairman):

Even though the 164 ended its career here in North America at the end of 1995, it soldiered on for another two or three years in other markets. Does anyone know if an improved timing belt tensioner was available after the time the 164 left our shores, up to the time it ceased production? Did Alfa ever make any updates to that part number at all, or did it remain unchanged?

I appreciate any feedback. Yes, we're considering getting another LS back in our driveway... maybe... if the right car comes along. We had a great champagne/tan '94, which we sold to fellow Alfista Sam G. waaaaay back when. But Irene loves the look of the LS in white, and I have to admit I too salivated over a pristine white one at our recent convention here in Lexington.

We'll see....

Dave in Ky
aka alfaloco
Now you see why Frank won 1st in his class don't ya? As for 24v hydraulic cylinder 605884475 adjustable tightener made by Tsubaki I don't know of any upgrade for 24v 164 engine. The tensioner for later 24v engines with oil pump driven off crankshaft mounts in place of aux shaft pulley we have on 164 engines so appears not to be a real option.

Krung Thai Equipment - TSUBAKI

This one similiar 1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT Timing Belt Tensioner MD319040
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yep-- Frank deserved that one! Beautiful car.

Well, thanks Steve, and I know you guys can tell I've been out of the 164 loop for awhile. I have been digging around and I saw the postings circa 2008 from Jason and you regarding the demise of the original tensioner, and the discussion of the newer style units. (Sorry to get that backwards and plow old ground again...)

Anyway, so there is a tensioner available, correct? I place a lot of faith in what you fellows can tell me, you know! I've also queried our Alfisti pals on the British AlfaOwner site on this issue. If we dive back into the 164 pool again, I want to be up to date on any issues, especially that timing belt tensioner.

Dave in KY
 

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yes they are available

Jason has them, DiFatta has them, there are no problems sourcing the tensioner that I am aware of.
 

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Jason has them, DiFatta has them, there are no problems sourcing the tensioner that I am aware of.
Not sure what Jason's current price is but difatta has them on ebay for $500 so not cheap by any means.
 

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ouch 500 clams

is a lotta dough!

I have never seen or heard of a Tsubaki tensioner failure other than the one Steve that you related, was it John Harrill's ? Was this failure confirmed?

Anybody tried to cross the tensioner? (probably used in a KUBOTA tractor or something like that!)
 

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THANKS FOR THE COMPLEMENTS. YA'ALL , MADE MY DAY!

As for the belt tensioner. "Goats", was right , they rarely fail. Who knows, you may find a LS with a new TB tensioner from the last time the TB was changed, so replacing the belt and the bearing is all that is needed. An by that time you will have soursed a replacement.
 

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John Harrill had a bad tensioner.
 

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Not sure what Jason's current price is but difatta has them on ebay for $500 so not cheap by any means.
I have them, $498.00 I can beat most prices on these, once Difatta is out he is out. I have a good amount of these. Sold last month and about 3 the month before and maybe 5-6 the month after that mostly overseas though. They do go bad but seems like they are all going bad right about now, so we are talking a good 16 years later. They are a tough unit and so is teh bearing. Most of the 164 24V engine stuff is not a problem. Serp. Idler bearings and adjust. Bearings are Gone, only a few left in stock and thats it.
But you can try replacing the bearings in those but they will need to have something to hold the bearings in the pulley. But totally doable for much less money than a NEW one. But I am sourcing some other ones for this application, just give me some time and I will have something.

I would not hesitate in buying another 164. Good luck!
 

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We use a similar tensioner on Ferrari 360's. i would say it looks almost identical to a 24v tensioner
 

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Alfa 164 24v and 12v Timing Belt Tensioners/Brearings

Here are pix of 164 24v Tsubaki 60584475 tensioner cylinder, 60580235 tensioner pulley hub and bearing assembly (seperated) and one 60561649 timing belt idler pulley bearing (2 required).

Bad tensioner was John Harrill's and I have not tried to take it apart yet to see how it is built. Good 1 is off Myron's 95LS as he was able to get all the new parts some years ago when his timing belt broke and luckily did not bend any valves so I am keeping it as last resort if I ever have to go back in his engine to do another timing belt and need one.

The tensioner bearing is same as one used on 12v V6 oil fed tensioner. IAP sells just the bearing under IAP # 02754. http://www.international-auto.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=2508&posid=861417&noapp=1

Last pix shows 12v tensioner choices, new style mechnical, Tom Zat fixed and Oil Fed. Fixed and oil feed has same tensioner bearing as 24v bearing shown above but different hub that bearing is pressed onto.
 

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I quote Steve, "Here are pix of 164 24v Tsubaki 60584475 tensioner cylinder, 60580235 tensioner pulley hub and bearing assembly (seperated) and one 60561649 timing belt idler pulley bearing (2 required)".

Isn't it 60603056 FIXED TIGHTENER [2] instead of 60561649?
 

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alfa 164 24v cam and accessory drive systems parts

Here are pix of 164 24v Tsubaki 60584475 tensioner cylinder, 60580235 tensioner pulley hub and bearing assembly (seperated) and one 60561649 timing belt idler pulley bearing (2 required).

Isn't it 60603056 FIXED TIGHTENER [2] instead of 60561649?
Maybe that 60603056 is new number now but it was originally for 1994-2001 Lancia Kappa 3.0 V6 and Alfa 147, 156, 166, GTV various models 1997 and onward so maybe it works just fine LOOKS SAME IN ePER pix.
Not listed as SS part number in ARI or ePER but is available in ARI Orlando.

Some part number info for 164 24v engine cam timing belt and accessory drive serpentine belt systems:

00606030560000 FIXED TIGHTENER $80.87 YES ARI [really a roller bearing]
00605616490000 Z ROLLER BRNING $70.08 NO
00605802350000 Z BEARING $107.25 YES ARI [IAP 02754 is bearing only]
00605844750000 Z TENSIONER [Tsubaki] $163.57 NO
00605802380000 Z TENSIONER SUPPORT $49.46 NO [what 60580235 bearing and hub pivot on]
00605612440000 Z TMNG BELT 24V $32.98 No
00605613800000 Z TENS PLUNGER $69.26 No for serpentine belt tensioner
00605616140000 Z BEARING $91.42 No pulley/brg for serpentine belt tensioner
00605616150000 Z BEARING $56.07 No idler pulley/bearings for serpenetine belt (2 required) bearings can be replaced)
00606185840000 Z SERVICE BELT $53.62 Yes ARI serpentine belt
00605613780000 Z BRACKET $98.87 No for serpentine bearing and tensioner mounting.
 

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Steve

I agree, probably the same part. My parts bin for the timing belt change is almost complete.

I am lacking, 60561614 FIXED TIGHTNER [1] for the serpintine belt.

When one does the timing belt should the other belt and bearings be changed as well. No one talks about that other belt except when the break or makes noise. I guess it depends on when is was done last.

What is the recomended milage for replacing the serpintine belt?
 

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Steve

I agree, probably the same part. My parts bin for the timing belt change is almost complete.

I am lacking, 60561614 FIXED TIGHTNER [1] for the serpintine belt.

When one does the timing belt should the other belt and bearings be changed as well. No one talks about that other belt except when the break or makes noise. I guess it depends on when is was done last.

What is the recomended milage for replacing the serpintine belt?
It is really a bearing 00605616140000 Z BEARING $91.42 No ARI

I need to see pix is this one of the two idler pulleys or bearing/pulley assembly for serpentine belt tensioner?

Do you have the hydraulic tensioner shock strut for serpentine belt, too?

I don't really think there is a time/mileage interval for serpentine belt more depends on visual inspection but if yours is vintage 1994 belt I would plan on it when you do timing belt.

Do you have special tools for job, too? Mine are still in NH with Jacob.
 

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Yep, it's the bearing for the bearing/pully assembly. The other bearings are a pair of idler bearing 60561615, which I have.

Don't have the hydralic tensioner.



I have to look at the PO records and see if the belt was changed in the past 50K.


Thanks, for the tool offer, but I am all set in the special tool department.
 

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Steve

I agree, probably the same part. My parts bin for the timing belt change is almost complete.

I am lacking, 60561614 FIXED TIGHTNER [1] for the serpintine belt.

When one does the timing belt should the other belt and bearings be changed as well. No one talks about that other belt except when the break or makes noise. I guess it depends on when is was done last.

What is the recomended milage for replacing the serpintine belt?
It is a bearing and pulley assembly for serpentine belt tensioner.
 

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Maybe I 'm daring?? or too Cheap? or Lazy -- or all 3!!

When I do the T belt, I do NOT do a wholesale change of all parts in the belt drive, this is under the assumption that any belt drive part with a rotating bearing will give sufficient advance notice that it has a problem. Wholesale change of rotating bearings is $$$$$ and I'm not Warren Buffet!

My approach is
Remove the fender covers and start the car, use a long handled screwdriver and put the business end on the serp belt bearing bolts and the other end on my ear flap. Should be able to hear whir whir and not clunk clank.
Remove the serp belt, both serp idlers, tensioner, etc and rotate them by hand, feel for grittiness /smoothness.
Check the alt, aircon pulley, PS, and any other drive items by hand -- just spin em and try to wobble them. If no wobble and spins smooth, leave em alone
Remove tbelt and do the same with the tensioner and both idler bearings for the T belt. YOu should be able to confirm that the bearings are smooth and not binding up.

For T belt, replace binding or excessive play bearings (err on the side of caution but only if you suspect an issue), replace water pump every other T belt change, and leave everything else alone unless you think theres an issue.

For serp belt, I don;t worry about it much as even a catastrophic failure is only basically an inconvenience. If one of the idlers or the tensioner is binding up or has excessive play, replace it. Also check to make sure the serp belt shock absorber boss is intact and not cracked.

I am working on a t=belt change method whereby valve covers don;t have to come off. I am going to try the LISLE cam tool (about 30 bucks) next time. Note this method will only work if the car is properly timed to start with and the belt change is prophylactic.

I guess I'm cheap as I don;t like to replace expensive parts unless needed -- that being said tho. I Also don;t replace t belt until 40K miles but I do remove the top timing cover about once a year (12 K miles) and inspect it with the car running. And, once I set the timing, I don;t go back in and check it later. I did that twice before and both times it hadn;t changed. I guess I'm a bit lazy.
 

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I can concur with Goats but when things had gone wrong such as a noisy bearing turning up the radio is not the answer or not listening to engine at all and just driving car until something fails is not the way either.

Granted Myron not really a car guy but once his car stopped dead because timing belt broke and one idler bearing toasted it's balls was a little to late so the initial repair shop replaced all the pulleys/bearings and tensioner. Just to bad they mistimed engine so I still had to reopen the patient and reset timing correctly.

Thou shalt not ignore unusual noises and then rely on painted timing marks of somebody else.

Once you do it right and paint your own marks and then don't knock cam pulleys off their tapered fit you can use your own painted marks next time.
 

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Steve as always CLASSIC

"turning up the radio is not the answer"

Might not be the answer for engine noises but it sure helps calm down the teenager in my car when the music on the radio is classical or jazz!!!

I often forget that there are some among us who don;t pay as close attention to things as some others do!
 
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