[orfedj]

So i've ben trying to remove the good power steering pump on my deceased Q for 3 days and still no avail...

I've read the tips and tricks, but the 3 13mm bolts that face tge oil filter will not turn...

First I tried crow foot wrenches with an extender, but the pulley diameter was too big and I couldn't get clearance with the extender... I then purchased a ratcheting 13 mm wrench with a swivel arm... Still no luck...

I resorted to removing the ps pulley and going back to the crow foot on an extender, but when I generate enough force to turn the ratchet, tge crow foot slips off tge extender and generally goes flying somewhere and it takes at least 10 minutes to locate it from the nooks and crannies of the engine...

Are there any other options for getting the power steering pump out?

What seems incredibly simple is becoming quite mind boggling and frustrating...

Help please!

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Alfa 164 24v Power Steering pump info

So i've ben trying to remove the good power steering pump on my deceased Q for 3 days and still no avail...

I've read the tips and tricks, but the 3 13mm bolts that face tge oil filter will not turn...

First I tried crow foot wrenches with an extender, but the pulley diameter was too big and I couldn't get clearance with the extender... I then purchased a ratcheting 13 mm wrench with a swivel arm... Still no luck...

I resorted to removing the ps pulley and going back to the crow foot on an extender, but when I generate enough force to turn the ratchet, tge crow foot slips off tge extender and generally goes flying somewhere and it takes at least 10 minutes to locate it from the nooks and crannies of the engine...

Are there any other options for getting the power steering pump out?

What seems incredibly simple is becoming quite mind boggling and frustrating...

Help please!

Much easier to remove a 164 12v p/s pump but you are right it is much harder on a 24v engine with bolts coming in from back side of bracket.

13mm or 1/2" distributor wrench should work . Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more they used to sell a 13mm one too but may not have it any more

You need that box end dizzy wrench type or a crows foot flare nut type. It needs to be brake line flare nut type crowsfoot wrench type so it can't spread on you.

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

Have you looked at taking pump bracket off engine with pump attached? It is attached with three 13 mm nuts.

 

[goats]

welcome to the wonderful world of

24V insanity! Yes indeed, you;ve come on a journey that will leave you breathless, frustrated, angry and elated all at once (or maybe in sequence!). A place where a "simple' job can take hours-- days -- even weeks!!! Draining the radiator-- simple huh! Removing the PS pump-- ! easy anyone can do it! only takes $300 of special tools, and 3 weekends!

No seriously, the offset distributor wrench is the way to go. I've had mine since 1977 == got it to set the timing on my 351 cleveland!

Good luck and let us know when you CONQUER the beast!!!!

 

[orfedj]

[/QUOTE]
Have you looked at taking pump bracket off engine with pump attached? It is attached with three 13 mm nuts.[/QUOTE]

Are there any special 13mm tools needed to take this route?

Ben trying to track down one of those distributor wrenches but, the 1/2" is no longer available and the 13mm ratchet version could take awhile to get according to the guy I spoke to at sears... So trying to get tge bracket off is prolly my best bet for the time being... Just wanted to go into this one fully prepared, in hopes of this being the final and successful attempt (then I get to look forward to it again in pulling the pump on my driving Q)!

From the diagram you posted two of the 13mm bolts are at the top and I presume the third is at the bottom.

Anything else I should know?

Thanks

 

[Del]

See if you have a Tool Town store in your area. They have a very good selection of obscure tools. Or, maybe a Harbor Freight. They also have a great many tools, not real quality, but maybe good enough.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

The bracket mounts to the engine with 3 studs so three nuts in a triangle pattern.

Hopefully you can use socket, extension and ratchet to remove the nuts.

 

[orfedj]

Success!

Taking the bracket off is the way to go... Just wish I didn't pay $20 this afternoon on the internet for 1/2" distributor wrench from tooltopia, which prolly won't show up til next week...

I would advise anyone with a 24v to take this route....

Here's the rundown...

If you have already removed the serpentine belt, use a c-clamp to prevent the p/s pulley from turning freely and remove the 3 bolts that secure the pulley to the pump and remove the pulley...

Then use a 13mm socket on ratchet (with handle sticking out into the wheel well) to remove the top nut on bracket closest to the oil filter (i actually removed oil filter to have some more room to fit my hand so that hold the end of the ratchet with socket head flush against the nut)...

There isn't much room to turn the ratchet before hit the power steering pump or the interior of the frame behind the wheel well... I was getting three clicks max, but continued until I could remove the nut by hand... Repeat procedure with other top nut...

Then comes the trickiest part, the last nut which is in the middle of the bracket and basically above and behind where intake from the line from the resovoir goes into the pump...

Finding the right socket and extension combo was the long part... Using an eight inch extender w/ a standard 13mm socket was too long and the same socket a 3 in extender was too short to clear the pump...

The trick was to use the 3 in extender with the long barrel 13mm socket and the combo was just right... Last nut removed and pump and bracket came out 1-2-3...

After removing the pump, I took it off the bracket which was not as easy as it would seem... Those bolts were so tight, I had to put the pump in the vice and put the handle from my 3 ton floor jack on the end of the ratchet to generate enough leverage to free them... And after seeing the little washers... I questioned why anyone would want to deal with trying to put the pump back on the bracket with the bracket attached to the car... Seems like it would be the harder route for sure...

Well now that I got that under my belt, lets see how effective my procedure works in pulling and replacing the pump in my good Q... Think I'll time the swap, think I can do it under 45 from start to finish...

Ill be to sure to post my results

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Cintos]

I concur that removing the bracket is the way to extract the PS pump. Thanks for the suggestion, as I was close to my wits end when I found this thread. Now..., I was not actually trying to "fix" the PS Pump, it was simply in the way of extracting the right-hand side banjo bolt from the oil cooling hose attachment at the oil filter housing. The PS bracket rests hard against the big head of the bolt - looks like it is an "interference fit", as there is a gouge in the bolt hard where they meet. Here is a shot of the oil filter hosing after the PS pump and brace were removed. You can see two of the three studs in the attached photo.

Ha, changing the oil filter will be much easier with that pump out of the way

 

[richardbradford]

Excellent thread and information. Thank you!

 

[goats]

you guys know that in the 24V tool kit there is a special offset distributor-type wrench for this exact purpose?

 

[beeton]

Not sure if it would solve your S/P problem but as Mine squealed and seemed to be leaking from the front (pulley) cover, I removed the cover and found a kit with new O ring, H shaped ring and gasket and seal. Gates 348424 BUT I picked up mine from a Toronto stearing rebuilder. He suggested I use a 9.0 rather than a 9.05 seal (the first dimension) as the 9.05 was too large from the factory (zf 0770 080 326).
If you are leaking from or have issues with the back of the box, the long road awaits you.

The proper kit is listed for many Audi, BMW and VW models between 1981-1999 (1987 BMW 325 for example). Also a listing for a GM application but I don't have that.
Picture attached.

 

[richardbradford]

you guys know that in the 24V tool kit there is a special offset distributor-type wrench for this exact purpose?

Hi.
Mine might be missing that. Any chance you could post a pic?

 

[goats]

Ill try to a) remember to do that, and if I do b) move the two cars, get the darn toolkit out of the cabinet and take a photo!

bob

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Goats standby to be corrected

you guys know that in the 24V tool kit there is a special offset distributor-type wrench for this exact purpose?

Actually not in 24v factory tools kit but in the 12v 164 factory tool kit. Alfa part number is/was 1822104000

 

[goats]

Goats defers to the alfisto steve the master 164 guru as again correct. I had that darn case open 3 or 4 weeks ago (and I don't remember why either) and saw that wrench. Come to think of it, I don't own the 24V tools kit..........

The kit includes two or three pairs of pliers to secure the ?oertiger? type clamps on the shocks/CV joints etc. These wrap around the circular part and then engage the ears on the clamp. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to make one pair of pliers that attacked it from the outside???? Alfa mysteries. I;ve NEVER used those pliers.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

I have the 24v tool kit "suitcase" with only the weighted arm and adapters for timing belt and serpentine belt tensioning in it.

I only have wall chart for the 12v 164 tools suitcase kit but I do have the Sears 13mm and 1/2" dizzy wrenches. I think I have a 11mm one for GTV6/Milano, too.

 

[beeton]

I did get mine off eventually but using an opon ended 13mm, The problem was the tight space between the bolt head and bracket. But by using the open side and a small inspection mirror (to see where the bolt was) I eased off by turning the bolt with the wrench while also turning the pump body. Slow going as there was only enough clearance to turn the bolt fractionally and the 13mm would slide off if not held at the exact angle. Pump has been rebuilt. Bracket is still on engine and 4th (or is it 3 total? Not looking at the car as I write this) bolt is still there as well. I may remove the bracket if it needs a proper cleaning.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Power steering hose info

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/50533-alfa-164-power-steering-info.html

 

[beeton]

Crazy as it seems, I cannot find any suitable power steering return line anywhere within 50km of my home. Lots of "possible" answers from local auto supply stores and even the Carquest does not have a 5/8 in their system although the U.S. site clearly shows the item and product number. Looks like I will have to order and wait for it to arrive from over the border.

Beeton in Ontario

 

[richardbradford]

Hi,

Has anyone tried fitting a 164 24v with ps pump from a twinspark 164? The twinspark doesn't have the two bolt bracket mounting points on the front face. An issue?

The 24v pump isn't leaking just sounds really rough (via stethoscope) and has lots of axial play. Got a seal kit for it but don't see anything in the kit to reduce the axial play but do have a twinspark ps pump in really good condition, hence the question.