[conedriver]

From their website, Central Carolinas Region SCCA has Solo (autocross) events at the Zmax dragstrip in Concord, the same city as the convention. I can assume the convention organizers have investigated having this group conduct an autocross, but maybe nothing came from this since the event would have to be during the week.

The convention schedule has been published and registration software is active. While I am disappointed, I think it's highly unlikely an autocross will be added to the schedule so it's time to take the 2023 convention for what it will be and have a good time.

Forget the race track .. there are more suitable options set by the autocross folks you hire .. You can also let them include "all comers" from other clubs to get the cost spread out per car. ,,,,and of course only group Alfa's times for the purpose of a trophy or two or three. This is a very good way to pull it off.

 

[AlfaSpiderRick]

I think George's assumption on Autocross cost is correct. Although I'm not one of the Convention Co-Chairs, my understanding from the planning sessions is that Charlotte Motor Speedway wanted an exorbitant amount for the additional track use. Plus, there was a conflict with available track time. - Rick (Graphics & Web Designer) / AROC of Atlanta / 2023 Alfa del Piemonte.

 

[HeavyMetalAlfa]

Seems to me there must a large parking lot near the convention Somewhere??

 

[conedriver]

Well, there is, but it's not as easy as just finding a parking lot. I'm assuming the Mid-Atlantic AROC doesn't conduct autocross events, so they must find another organization with timing equipment, pylons, access to a site, and - most difficult - have the capacity and be willing to conduct an event during a weekday when most of their members are working.

I started this thread because, as primarily an autocross competitor, I was frustrated that the convention didn't have one. That said, let's move on. Conducting an AROC convention is a lot of work and I'm reminded of reading a quote by Stirling Moss some decades ago where he compares race drivers to race track workers & marshals:

Paraphrased: When racing, one is receiving efforts and energy from the workers, and many British race drivers become track workers when retired to pay back some of that energy. Most AROC convention organizers & workers likely attended earlier conventions conducted by other chapters and conducting the current convention is a way to pay back the efforts of some of the previous convention organizers.

I have both given and received AROC convention efforts, so will be in Concord, NC next June for 2023 Alfa del Piemonte.

Seems to me there must a large parking lot near the convention Somewhere??

 

[alfaloco]

Amen to that, George. We're very much looking forward to this convention. The drive there from points north and south is lovely, as well as that part of the country.

 

[klharper124]

Well you could have had an autocross. I was President of MARRC for several years prior to 2022, and for the previous 3 years I had presented a plan to our board to have a convention and was told that we were "too old" "Not enough Participants" "We should try something smaller first"
I had the complete convention planned out (Still have the presentation file). I had a better hotel, The Grandover Resort in Greensboro, Choosing the embassy suites in Concord over it, is like choosing a Buick over an Alfa. The Embassy suites there is functional but bland. Google them to see the difference.
I had an Autocross place, we were going to the Winston-Salem fairgrounds and THSCC was going to do timing and scoring. I still have the cones in my garage.
I had a better track VIR, which Ray Charles could see is better than CMS.
As a lifelong NC native I am pretty sure that I had better drives, simply because for the last 20 years I have been setting up the drives and the roads around the Triad are simply better than the roads around Charlotte.
I also had a TSD rally, a karting session, and an optional opportunity to go and see an old style stock car race at historic Bowman Gray Stadium.
The decision to hold the convention in the Corcord/Charlotte area irked me so bad that I ended a 30 year relationship that I had with the club.
So yeah you could have had an Autocross it is just poor planning and decision making.

 

[alfaloco]

KL that's a very sad and disappointing first-hand account to read. Based on what you say, and your previous position, I can't blame you for feeling the way you do, and it certainly casts a question over this AROC event.
Planning and carrying out an AROC national convention is not something to be taken lightly, not without serious discussion and coordination. But this sounds like it was possibly a case of lack of leadership and initiative. Sad.
As for age, that response does p*ss me off. I was 68 when I assisted the hard working "volunteers" of Alfa Tennessee with their 2016 convention, as hotel chairman. I was 62 when we put on the national convention here in Lexington in 2011. And our co-chair had about 10 years on me at that time. Age?? BS...

 

[klharper124]

Alfaloco I won your rally at TN in 2016 in an Alfa GT junior in GTA guise. We were later the centerfold of the Alfa Owner going through the Dragon on the way to the event. Great times.
And yes I completely agree with you on the "Old Guys" statement. One of the leads of the concord convention flat out told me that he was and i will quote "Too old to do events and it was time to let the younger guys take over" next year he is a chair.

Eric, sorry your angry, but what part is not true, heck you even attended at least one of my presentation perhaps all of them.

 

[Tom&RobsAlfas]

I'm the "let's try something smaller first" voice and I'm not rebutting what Kevin wrote, I never saw the plan, but I would like to add my opinion. Many, many years ago, when the Hampton Roads region of MAARC was considerably large and better attended, I too suggested, several times, that we host a National Convention but the idea was not accepted. Now, some decades later, MAARC wants to hold the National and I hope they are successful but I am not able to be part of the program. I take 24/7 care of an 89 YO dementia patient so I cannot be away from home overnight but I can tell you this... We have usually averaged only 6 - 9 members of MAARC at the monthly dinner meetings for quite some time (years) and one of those isn't even a club member, another is in his early 80s, two others retired and moved away - but not before pointing out that they were tired of the same people, themselves, and the same regular group of volunteers, having to plan and execute a long running annual event only to have to listen to participants complaints afterwards but no extra volunteers to help with next year - and another active member passed away, and so the Hampton contribution isn't going to be large and hasn't been for several years.

While I have met and been to many of our MAARC events I really don't 'know' the people in N.C. but I will say this, kudos to Kevin if he did all of the planning and was able to bring it all together by himself but I think there is something to be said for the fact that apparently, with all of the heavy lifting done, there were still not enough people from the NC area to execute Kevin's plans. I have heard now there are volunteers from many of the neighboring state clubs willing to help for 2023 but again, because of my situation I am not part of the program so I don't really know but I will echo the sentiment that, this is a huge undertaking and requires the active participation of several dozen people for quite some time. So I will add again, if you want this and you don't like the way it is been organized, please FEEL FREE TO DO IT YOURSELF! Get the planning done and get the people to support the event, arrange the all of the venues and, above all, execute. If not, please shut your mouth and either come and enjoy the efforts of others or stay home.

 

[alfaloco]

I've been there, too. The reality is that geographic proximity doesn't have to be a limiting factor (to convention planning) with the tech we all have available. But to Tom & Rob's point, when the day arrives, and it's time to roust out the troops, people must show up and execute. I would never have guessed that the chapter was that limited, frankly.

 

[ghnl]

Eric, sorry your angry, but what part is not true...

I never said what you wrote was not 'true'. But I do not think it is appropriate to air your personal grudge is such a disparaging way. I wondered why we have not seen or heard from you these past few months. I was not aware you were so upsert with the way things worked out.

 

[klharper124]

I never said what you wrote was not 'true'. But I do not think it is appropriate to air your personal grudge is such a disparaging way. I wondered why we have not seen or heard from you these past few months. I was not aware you were so upsert with the way things worked out.

Think of me as a tour guide, I know the area well, I know the hotels, and I know the tracks, as such I will actively discourage people from going there. CMS is a lousy track, I use to run it back in the day because VIR and CMP did not exist and we were forced to run it for SARRC points. I don't think SCCA even goes there anymore. If you go take a book it will give you something to do once you enter the oval in turn one til you hit the hump in turn 4.
The hotel is a corporate business hotel it is bland with one of the selling points that it is near a mall, never mind that the mall is mostly empty save for the Bass pro shop. You are taking a drive to Piccone Vineyards, and to be honest the roads aren't that great, you are not far enough north or west to pick up any good roads, conversely from GSO you could have hit Chateau Morsette it is a nicer vineyard and a much better drive.
I actively said last year DO NOT GO HERE, but even though for the last 8 years or so I had put on probably 80% of MARRC events ranging from tours, autocross, drives even a track day or two my concerns were brushed aside. When I asked board members what changed in one year I was given the flippant response that "We had gotten younger"
So yes I will encourage people not to go, this will not be a great event, it will be a very bland event. I handed you an event on a Silver platter. It had been prerun by the FIAT club a couple of years earlier so we knew exactly what it would take, and it is such a better venue. Maybe we will get lucky and the FIAT group will return in a few years, Alfa's have always been welcomed.
I think my opinion is a valid one, from someone who really know the area, and from my text messages that I have received since I posted here there are a lot of other MARRC members that agree with me.

 

[Bruce Sharer]

ignore

 

[Bruce Sharer]

I would suggest speaking with the organizers of the 2023 convention to get a different perspective on this topic. The information posted earlier in regard to the convention location and planning was misleading in the extreme. Certain "facts" enumerated were incomplete, misleading, and do not support reality. A large committee of volunteers gathered over two early meetings to read and discuss the merits, pros and cons, of the two proposals. A vote was conducted and Concord/Charlotte/CMS was chosen by a large majority. A lot of hard work has and is being done by a number of volunteers to provide the Alfa community with an excellent convention. Don't form your opinion on one view of the elephant.

 

[klharper124]

I would suggest speaking with the organizers of the 2023 convention to get a different perspective on this topic. The information posted earlier in regard to the convention location and planning was misleading in the extreme. Certain "facts" enumerated were incomplete, misleading, and do not support reality. A large committee of volunteers gathered over two early meetings to read and discuss the merits, pros and cons, of the two proposals. A vote was conducted and Concord/Charlotte/CMS was chosen by a large majority. A lot of hard work has and is being done by a number of volunteers to provide the Alfa community with an excellent convention. Don't form your opinion on one view of the elephant.

Which facts were incorrect Bruce, I think I am dead on.

In fact when I asked you what happened between last year and this year your response was a flippant "We got younger"

Also just curious. How many drives, tours, tech sessions, autocrosses or other events have you done this year? and yes this is a redundant question as I know the answer, just done to make a point.

 

[AlfistiSA]

OK, folks, regardless of personal feelings & individual choices of hotels & roads & racetracks etc etc, I'm going to ask everyone to please play nicely in this particular sandbox...

This thread has popped up on the Mods radar with several pings..... so we're watching it closely now & no it wasn't flagged by our Mebane Admin either.

I'm 8300 miles from y'all as the exhausted crow flies transatlantic, different continent & very nearly a different planet, but regardless of that you have my best wishes for a successful Convention.

Aye
Greig
Wearing my big ten-gallon Admin Stetson here

 

[klharper124]

Hey All
I would like to say that I am sorry for ruffling feathers.

But some good has come out of it. I took Tom & Robs advice and started a Driving club. We are on FB and the group is called Classic Sports car Driving Club of North Carolina. We have the first drive planned and it came out of the original plans for a convention it goes from Greensboro to Chateau Morrisette. We are working on the second drive and we will be running a rally using the rally that was planned for the initial convention, so some of that planning will be used.

We are a driving club and will be doing rally's, tours and day drives. I was a principal driver (pun intended) for a lot of these events during my time with the Alfa club and I kept a pretty good library of the drives and tours. Just need to pre run them to make sure things haven't changed. We will not be doing autocrosses, we have two good local clubs THSCC (Tar Heel sports car club) and TSCC (Triad Sports car Club), Tarheel has said they have tried to have a more vintage class but have not had enough cars, but they would be interested. I haven't got feedback from TSCC. It could be fun if we got enough interest.

We are not an Alfa only club with the criteria being pre 1995 sportscars and we do have a good cross section signed up with several Alfa's that are interested. We aren't doing monthly meetings, car shows or anything like that. The most we would do is meet at the Kart track for a bit of Kart racing.

So thanks to Tom & Robs for giving me the push to kick this off. It has actually gotten good interest and I think I will enjoy the larger spectrum of cars.

Finally, Since several people have asked about it, I will add the file with the original proposal, it will show you what you are missing and some really great things to do in the state and surrounding areas while you are here. You will notice a Heavy Fiat content to the presentation as the Fiat group did their convention here in 2019, I just tweaked a few things for the Alfa convention, but it still has a lot of Fiats in it.
Time to get out and drive.