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I just received my November (paper) copy of MT. 4C tested against 9 others for the "Best Driver's Car". A 2nd place finish!! Tested on the road, and at Laguna Seca, the 4C bested the P 911 Turbo S, the Nissan GT-R Nismo, BMW M4... They were all faster around the track, but still, the editors chose the 4C above them. Can hardly wait to test drive one and decide for myself!
 

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more powerful cars are faster on tracks like that, but smaller track Ill bet 4c will beat most of those
 

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There are lots of cars that weren't there, that will beat the 4C in various ways.
Strangely, I don't really WANT any of those the way I pine for a 4C though.

Funny however, that they call the 918 a "car of the future", while it's been available to order for a while already (the first one in Canada has already burned to the ground last weekend!), whereas the i8 and 4C were "cars of today", I guess.
Maybe their calendar runs backwards at MT?

Still, very fun video. An hour well wasted. :)
 

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The 918 is the car of the future because few people understand exactly how he driveline works and think they lack the tools to fix it in their own garage. That the design department went overboard with the styling (like BMW did with the i8) also helps.

Then again, I know people who think fuel injected engines belong in the category "modern newfangled ideas we don't actually need".

Anyhow, funny how MT put the 4C in second place as a driver's car while Evo magazine considered it a complete failure in the same role.
 

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Ha, ha, I dont mind the second place of the Alfa, that is a car for the future. However the Camaro is completely a car for the past and should not be on the list at all, completely out of modern times! Well its an US test so that should explain their preference.

Here I think the BMW M4 and Porsche Turbo S would have better chance of being winners of such a test based on their abilities! German cars win german test, US car wins US test etc.etc.

GK.
 

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...However the Camaro is completely a car for the past and should not be on the list at all, completely out of modern times...
So, you've driven a Z28, have you? And the fact that they've chosen Porsches the past 2 years still counts as typical American-centric writing...
 

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So, you've driven a Z28, have you? And the fact that they've chosen Porsches the past 2 years still counts as typical American-centric writing...
I can't speak on behalf of Gabor, but I kinda agree that the Z/28 Camaro looks a bit like the odd duck in this collection of cars. It's obviously very good in the ways that matter (and fun, by the looks of it), but evolving a 45 year old car concept is hardly innovation.

Still, a Camaro is a Camaro. A 1000hp hybrid version would just be wrong ;)
 

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I can't speak on behalf of Gabor, but I kinda agree that the Z/28 Camaro looks a bit like the odd duck in this collection of cars. It's obviously very good in the ways that matter (and fun, by the looks of it), but evolving a 45 year old car concept is hardly innovation.

Still, a Camaro is a Camaro. A 1000hp hybrid version would just be wrong ;)
But, isn't the bold part of the quote what Porsche has done (very well, for most of it)?

There certainly is a difference in what mainstream America wants from its high performance cars, compared to Europe. Or Japan, for that matter. So not too surprising if there is a different outcome in this kind of competition here vsersus other regions. I'm surprised that the Challenger SRT Hellcat wasn't represented. Possibly because it was too close to the Camaro. And had the latest Corvette been made available, the result might have been a sweep for Detroit labels.

I'm glad to see that the Camaro is still relevant - I've owned two over the years, and can tell you that there have been decades when the car should not have been built! But equally glad that this review had the balls to put the 4C second, and ahead of the 911 Turbo S and GTr Nismo, - both generally considered to be in a much more elite zip code than our diminutive Alfa.

So, here's to the little guy from Italy.
Anyone hearing the theme song from Rocky right about now? :)
 

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Ha, ha, I dont mind the second place of the Alfa, that is a car for the future. However the Camaro is completely a car for the past and should not be on the list at all, completely out of modern times! Well its an US test so that should explain their preference.

Here I think the BMW M4 and Porsche Turbo S would have better chance of being winners of such a test based on their abilities! German cars win german test, US car wins US test etc.etc.

GK.
How is the Camaro a car of the past?
 

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Perhaps I'm a little sensitive being from motown but it is tiresome to hear the uninformed comment on an American car that they've never seen let alone driven let alone studied the technology involved. Nobody has been tougher on the American car manufacturers than the American press. Thirty years ago they had every reason to be critical... But that was thirty years ago...
 

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How is the Camaro a car of the past?
Yes, why not? personally I would prefer a ZR1 over a Camaro if I had to choose an american car.

However a much more modern Amercian car has huge success here, the Tesla S. Its due to it has the range, power and facitlities of a modern car and of course reduced taxes. So there is of course a contrast in problems here of getting enough Electric charging outlets and discussing 7L V8 engines of the past with petrol prices here around 4 times that in the US!

Personally I think the move here to downsize and turbocharge the engines is a smart move in order to keep the combustion engine alive, before the alternatives are all over us!

GK.
 

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The American automotive press is usually pretty hard on American cars. They tend to favor German cars.

The Camaro Z28 is a very modern car. The LS engine series dates back to 1997, but the Z28's LS7 engine is a different animal, and only dates back to 2006. It's a very modern engine with a lot of titanium parts and a 7100rpm redline.

Take a look at the transmission, brakes, and everything else, it's all very up to date.
 

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Yes, why not? personally I would prefer a ZR1 over a Camaro if I had to choose an american car.
ZR1 vs Z28, I think that's a win win argument for GM. If you don't need a back seat, it's a pretty simple choice.

However a much more modern Amercian car has huge success here, the Tesla S. Its due to it has the range, power and facitlities of a modern car and of course reduced taxes.
The success of Tesla is entirely due to subsidies, mostly paid for by people who don't drive Teslas. It's a case of taking from the poor and giving to the rich, it's not a case of a superior design generating sales.

So there is of course a contrast in problems here of getting enough Electric charging outlets and discussing 7L V8 engines of the past with petrol prices here around 4 times that in the US!
American V8s are actually pretty fuel efficient for the amount of power they make. Thee LS7 in the Z28 is one of the most thirsty American V8s, and yet it still gets better fuel economy than about half a dozen Porsche models. Nobody is calling those cars of the past.

Your fuel over there costs more due to higher taxes. That's a political issue, not an engineering issue. The price of the fuel alone is probably about the same. This is another case of politics favoring the electric car. They don't tax electricity nearly as much, but they could!

Personally I think the move here to downsize and turbocharge the engines is a smart move in order to keep the combustion engine alive, before the alternatives are all over us!

GK.
That is happening to a large extent.
 

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But its 7L and that is passé today!

GK.
What difference does that make? Really? If you have two engines making the same amount of power, and the one with more displacement is lighter, physically smaller, has fewer moving parts, and gets the same fuel economy, what difference does it make how much displacement it has?
 

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What difference does that make? Really? If you have two engines making the same amount of power, and the one with more displacement is lighter, physically smaller, has fewer moving parts, and gets the same fuel economy, what difference does it make how much displacement it has?
Agree. Same with the Dodge Hemi.
MDS helps, but even without, it does return pretty good numbers.

The "problems" with the large displacement engines is they do tend to pollute more than they need to (for the purpose of moving one, two, or four people from A to B), and that they tend to be heavy, going into heavy cars built to handle the weight of the engine and beefed-up drive train, brakes, cooling, etc. They put out enough power to compensate for all this, but the result is the antithesis of what the 4C is all about. That's what makes the little guy from Modena so special. What it can do with only 4 cylinders and a transmission borrowed from another model makes it the David to the Detroit Goliaths (as somebody already pointed out).

Power camoflauges a lot of ills. Engineering a lighter, more efficient solution is more elegant. Eeking even more power out of that (like you are doing) is kind of the best of both worlds. As long as the rest of the car, and the driver, can handle that power (can you say Ferrari 599 GTO?).
 

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Putting emotions aside big vs. small engine, its clearly demonstrated here that a small efficient engine with light body can give just as much fun and temperament as a big engine not nearly as efficient. So then its a choice of what you like, here we choose small and efficient engines for the time beeing!

GK.
 

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I love the 4C and wouldn't take a Z28 or for that matter any Camaro or Corvette over it. I just don't agree that the Z28 is somehow an old and outdated car, it isn't.

I also don't agree that displacement itself is bad, it isn't. In fact often when comparing two engines of similar power, the larger displacement version is often lighter, physically smaller, and more fuel efficient. Remember all those small block Chevy conversions into Jags? They went from 4.2 to 5.7 liters and in most cases gained power, reliability, fuel economy, and saved weight. I suspect the same is true with the newest LS7 when compared to other engines of similar power.
 
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