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I am a recent member (2019) in Connecticut. Premium ? Doubt it, but did pay my dues.
 

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Sure it can be done. But it will be very expensive. You will easily spend $15K. Not many have done this, need to change lots of internal parts to fabricating parts, new fuel management system, basically you need to rebuild everything. I would just bump to a 3.5L instead.

 

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Al Mitchell - Reale, has a twin turbo GTV6 project with a pair of turbo's from Saab 9-5's and intercoolers from Audi. I drove it recently and it is a rocket ship. I expect that he will share details with you if you contact him.
 

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Compression ratio is pretty high on the stock engine for anything with a lot of boost pressure. Then you've got a fuelling issue likely, make sure the injectors are big enough.
 

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Al has some special pistons from Arias for the next engine build. His current limiting factor is the stock clutch which can "only" handle about 360 ft-lb. He had adjusted the Meqasquirt to keep it below that when I drove it
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the advice. I have the hard parts less turbo, injectors, undoubtedly other things. Thinking T3 and 5-6 #, along with prudent foot as i'm told the transaxle's not too stout.
Might look for a 6-speed, or even straight cut unit as gear whine not a concern. Any advice on strengthening 5-speed appreciated. Downside is losing the beautiful current exhaust note. Also inquired twice to Hewland re their front drive box's input output dimen-
sions, but getting stiff-armed so far. 1st gear seems awfully
low presently, unless winding more than 5500, which worries me as oil pressure seems low.
 

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Oil pressure not low. It's the oil pressure sender which is a known issue, only reads correctly cold. As long as it's reading near 55 accelerating, there is no low oil pressure. Nothing to worry about. No need to strengthen gearbox. Can handle tons of power as is. Plus if this is my 164 which it is, that box was rebuilt completely already. I agree with Micheal above, Stock engine compression is too high. This will be a massive project as mentioned.
 

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I believe that Al was running at 20 PSI boost with stock pistons. Do you guys have experience with putting turbo's on Alfa V6's?
 

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None, but some with Saab 9k. Sounds to me like 20# if it's breathing with cast pistons is pretty serious. I'm looking for 6-7# and maybe 260 hp+/-.
No expert by a long shot.
 

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20 psi absolute or 20 psi additional ? I can believe the former but if someone's claiming 1.2 bar or more on stock compression with street octane fuel I say bs to that. On the other hand adding 5 or so psi to atmospheric for an absolute pressure of 20 psi is generally accepted to be feasible even with relatively high stock CR as long as the software is up to the job. You can't get that kind of pressure over the whole rev range though unless you drop the CR to something more like 9:1. The lower you go the more boost the combustion chambers can handle without detonation.

Mechanical supercharging can work better for this reason. The additional air is added in a linear fashion (assuming a roots type blower or similar is fitted). This naturally produces higher bmep progressively up the rpm range making it easier to control detonation.

Adding a good sized intercooler is also a good idea.

The exhaust note is trivial compared to the total re-characterization of this naturally aspirated work of genius. Be careful what you wish for. Frankenstein may have been strong but.....man he was ugly.
 

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What is your experience with turbo charged Alfa V6's Michael?
Here are some data points.
Al Mitchell won an SCCA regional championship in a GTV6 that he built himself.
Al owns a dyno and is a Megasquirt expert.
When he tested his turbo GTV6 on his dyno the clutch slipped at anything over 300 ft-lb at the wheels.
My 3L GTV6 that I recently sold made 214 HP and 205 ft-lb at the wheels. A friends Calloway twin turbo GTV6 made 199 RWHP.
My daily driver is a Jaguar XKR - 5L supercharged, 510HP and 460 ft-lb at 2500 rpm. Car and Driver road tested it at 0-100 in 8 point something seconds.
Al's twin turbo GTV6 has similar acceleration to my Jag. It makes that power with about 20 psig boost. The motor is an otherwise stock 2.5 with Megasquirt engine management and appropriate injectors.
 

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We don't have any such beasts here. I have owned three turbo SAABs, a biturbo Audi (driven both in low boost pressure stock tune and with the MTM high pressure ECU) , a supercharged jaguar and a supercharged Subaru BRZ (also driven for its warranty period in stock unboosted form). I've driven a lot of turbo cars and a lot of naturally aspirated cars, some quite powerful. Other boosted cars I have driven include both stages of tune Giulia, two different McLarens, three different Subaru WRX STI, three different Nissan GTR and a Bentley Turbo R.....

You either get the fundamental difference between NA and boosted engines or you do not. Not saying ones better than the other. I am saying an unboosted Busso V6 is better than any boosted version could possibly be if you like NA engines. The 2.5 was the best version, more over-square, and next would be the QV version of which I only drove the North American tune 3.0. The last version would have been my choice for best version of that engine even though it had little Busso left in it by then, but alas none showed up over here and nobody rented them in Europe when I was visiting !!!

Great engines are great out of the box and tend to be produced over long time periods. I think the current McLaren engines are such, based as they are on a racing engine developed by Ricardo for McLaren. One of the best ways to ruin a great engine is to bolt on supercharging. One of the best ways to improve a great engine is to bolt on a supercharger, turbo or otherwise. Depends what you prefer.

I would not try to improve a 164 in this way. Great way to ruin the drive. I wouldn't hesitate to fit a boosted engine into a Milano or GTV6. Now if the 164 had awd.....?
 

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We don't have any such beasts here. I have owned three turbo SAABs, a biturbo Audi (driven both in low boost pressure stock tune and with the MTM high pressure ECU) , a supercharged jaguar and a supercharged Subaru BRZ (also driven for its warranty period in stock unboosted form). I've driven a lot of turbo cars and a lot of naturally aspirated cars, some quite powerful. Other boosted cars I have driven include both stages of tune Giulia, two different McLarens, three different Subaru WRX STI, three different Nissan GTR and a Bentley Turbo R.....

You either get the fundamental difference between NA and boosted engines or you do not. Not saying ones better than the other. I am saying an unboosted Busso V6 is better than any boosted version could possibly be if you like NA engines. The 2.5 was the best version, more over-square, and next would be the QV version of which I only drove the North American tune 3.0. The last version would have been my choice for best version of that engine even though it had little Busso left in it by then, but alas none showed up over here and nobody rented them in Europe when I was visiting !!!

Great engines are great out of the box and tend to be produced over long time periods. I think the current McLaren engines are such, based as they are on a racing engine developed by Ricardo for McLaren. One of the best ways to ruin a great engine is to bolt on supercharging. One of the best ways to improve a great engine is to bolt on a supercharger, turbo or otherwise. Depends what you prefer.

I would not try to improve a 164 in this way. Great way to ruin the drive. I wouldn't hesitate to fit a boosted engine into a Milano or GTV6. Now if the 164 had awd.....?
I agree, don't screw up my 164. It's great the way it is. Boosting it will just reduce the life of the engine imo as there are so many modifications that meed to be done. The engine is a piece of art and engineering. Sounds amazing as a NA engine. Like I said, a 3.5L conversion would be better suited but even then you need to mod a lot.
 

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"Don't screw it up" ? Nothing quite shows disinterest like forgetting the "O" ring seal in the diff, and shipping it anyway.
 

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"Don't screw it up" ? Nothing quite shows disinterest like forgetting the "O" ring seal in the diff, and shipping it anyway.
What are you talking about? It was not missing, NOTHING WAS MISSING. Nothing wrong with it before it left. So don't go down that road. You seem to have a lapse in memory. The seal and o-ring were not missing on the axle. Nothing was missing period. I sold you a great car that is 28 years old. Whatever problems you have had have nothing to do with me. I doubt you have had any real issues with it. These cars, if you study up here, have their quirky issues, including the brake level light coming on from time to time or the oil pressure not reading correctly. The problem is you are new to these cars and want to blame me for minor things when you never came to see the car, drive the car or anything else. I installed the Q2 in dead of winter for you, right before having to vacate our house we just sold. I gave you tons of oil and parts, I put a new Sunroof seal in which was a pain in my ***. Cars have issues, if you were expecting a car with no issues, you bought the wrong car!!!!

Anyway, I think turbo charging this engine is a waste of time and money but again its your car.

Got a few emails too that you drove the car to your local alfa meeting, many compliments on my car.

Anyway, there was nothing missing. I know what I did and the only mistake I made was not replace the axel seals for new ones as the olds were not leaking. It was also NOT leaking after several days of testing it before shipping.
 

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It leaked, and quite a bit,from day one. However you said up front your work wouldn't be guaranteed and I accepted that. But the mechanic told me there was no sign of an "O" ring. That's all I know. That was volunteered info, nothing I asked about.
The good news is I love the car.
Ciao
 

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It leaked, and quite a bit,from day one. However you said up front your work wouldn't be guaranteed and I accepted that. But the mechanic told me there was no sign of an "O" ring. That's all I know. That was volunteered info, nothing I asked about.
The good news is I love the car.
Ciao
Well of course. How could I guarantee work over 2000 miles away??

Well, that o-ring if it was not installed, is not a big deal. That said, it never leaked. Sorry about that regardless but again I did not even remove the seals or o-rings at all. So I am not sure how in the world it would have been missing?? Those o-rings don't come out easy either. I drove it around for a week testing it with 0 leakage.

You should love the car and glad you do. The Q2 Diff made the car even better. Test driving it in Flagstaff in the wet weather and slight snow made it track so well, also on the loose gravel. I should have installed that thing years ago.

Minor glitch. I did my best for the time I had. If I made a mistake then I did. I would have never sold you a leaky car if I knew it leaked. I would have kept the car longer to fix it. But it did not leak. Trust me. I don't need that kind of problem. I have sold many cars and all of them I make sure are in the best condition possible, no issues and if there are issues I will always disclose them like I did with you!

Ciao Harvard.

Don't Turbo charge this car. It's really going to be a classic and has a beautiful motor.
 
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