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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
AlfaBB Wizards - I am replacing my 1993 S4 (USA) motor mounts and ran into what appears to be an unusual situation. The existing passenger side motor mount on my car appears to be different than the new one I got from Centerline.
A photo below shows the original motor mount still in the car. All of the 13mm fasteners holding the mount, and the intake plenum cross bolt, have been removed. There remains a large (17mm?) fastener in place that passes through the motor mount flange into the block. It looks like this fastens a yolk support for the starter. The flange on the existing motor mount is different than the standard one I purchased. There is a photo below showing the new motor mount flange. Has anyone encountered this before? I am at an all stop. Any feedback appreciated.
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never seen that before either, but the s4 parts book does actually show a rear starter support bracket...and lists two different versions of that side motor mount ("420 - new engine support bracket on intake side")....so there must have been a change at some stage, perhaps when going to a lighter starter motor?

none on my early (euro) S4.
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perhaps unbolt the rubber part and bolt it to the original engine mount base that you have?
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jeeez, that must complicate the removal of the intake side! That is hard enough a job w/o any added bracketry:(
 

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I have a 93 S4 USA spec and am the original owner and my car has the starter support bracket. Do as suggested and mount the new rubber to your existing engine mount base. After a clean- up and a fresh coat of paint the mount will look like new. The starter support is the last item you attach because/ if not, the thru bolt for the plenum support can't be put into the engine mount. Also, don't fully tighten the thru bolt as you will need some play when you wrestle with the plenum. (And you WILL wrestle) I did this job 2 yrs ago and I don't recall how much fiddling was required to to get the starter bracket in place but those plenum bolts are forever etched in memory. Make sure the Pos cable is removed from the battery before you start.
 

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I don't think the support attached to the intake side engine mount is for the starter. Motor mount attaches to support for the intake manifold. It is forward of the starter. Part shown above in the view with starter is the shim that goes between bellhousing and starter motor (not a support for the back of starter).
 

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Does your car have an automatic transmission? Certainly an a bracket at end of starter you picture. Starters I have seen just attach at the bellhousing for standard transmission
 

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1973 2000GTV, 1993 Spider Veloce , 1962 250 GTE
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I don't think the support attached to the intake side engine mount is for the starter. Motor mount attaches to support for the intake manifold. It is forward of the starter. Part shown above in the view with starter is the shim that goes between bellhousing and starter motor (not a support for the back of starter).
I don't think the support attached to the intake side engine mount is for the starter. Motor mount attaches to support for the intake manifold. It is forward of the starter. Part shown above in the view with starter is the shim that goes between bellhousing and starter motor (not a support for the back of starter).
The support is for the front of the starter not at the bell housing. The picture that was provided is not very good to illustrate the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The car has the standard 5 speed. I will recycle the existing engine mount base and replace the rubber spacer with the new one taken from the new engine mount.
I assume to accomplish this I will need to disconnect the intake plenum and “fold” it over the top of the engine. Then remove the starter support yolk bolt and yolk. Then pull the engine mount and swap parts. Then reverse the process. Let me know if anyone knows a way to shorten the process.
Thank you all for the input. Greatly appreciate. I will report out how this goes.
 

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I assume to accomplish this I will need to disconnect the intake plenum and “fold” it over the top of the engine.
No folding required, just pull out the plenum. There are instructions in the service manual, but basically it's remove the vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, wiring connectors, and throttle connection, unclamp the four short hoses to the head, and remove the bolts underneath from the support. Then the whole thing just lifts out.

The bolts underneath in/out are the toughest part since you're working blind, but it's not that difficult. If you clamp off the coolant hoses no need to drain coolant.
 
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I don't think the support attached to the intake side engine mount is for the starter.
I think we are talking part #2 in the parts diagram above.....it is a starter to engine mount support (part #6 is the bolt that attaches to said mount)

Earlier cars had s similar set up for those huge heavy starters......they could break off the bellhousing flange if not supported at the front....like here:
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someone on here said it was wise to leave the driver's side mount completely loose then tackle the more difficult inlet side...that allows more movement.
 

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The car has the standard 5 speed. I will recycle the existing engine mount base and replace the rubber spacer with the new one taken from the new engine mount.
I assume to accomplish this I will need to disconnect the intake plenum and “fold” it over the top of the engine. Then remove the starter support yolk bolt and yolk. Then pull the engine mount and swap parts. Then reverse the process. Let me know if anyone knows a way to shorten the process.
Thank you all for the input. Greatly appreciate. I will report out how this goes.
You got it... do the passenger side first, then the driver side mount. Raise the engine slightly as needed with a flat piece of wood across the oil pan. Regarding the plenum support strut, I opened up the two holes at the top (where it bolts into the intake plenum) with a rotary file in my drill, to allow for a little more "forgiveness" while working blind with those two bolts. They are not easy to get started straight-- get them started with your fingers to avoid cross-threading them. The other 3 bolts supporting the throttle bracket are not so bad, but use 1/4" drive sockets and extension because it's tight under there. When you get finished, you'll wish for your engine mounts to last forever! Which they won't of course. :rolleyes:
 

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BTW, my '91 S4 Spider does not have the starter support as shown. But it has a smaller diameter starter.
 

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You got it... do the passenger side first, then the driver side mount. Raise the engine slightly as needed with a flat piece of wood across the oil pan. Regarding the plenum support strut, I opened up the two holes at the top (where it bolts into the intake plenum) with a rotary file in my drill, to allow for a little more "forgiveness" while working blind with those two bolts. They are not easy to get started straight-- get them started with your fingers to avoid cross-threading them. The other 3 bolts supporting the throttle bracket are not so bad, but use 1/4" drive sockets and extension because it's tight under there. When you get finished, you'll wish for your engine mounts to last forever! Which they won't of course. :rolleyes:
Do the above. BUT remove the driver’s side first and leave it off. Then do the passenger side. Leaving the driver’s off will give you more room to push the engine towards the driver’s side to give you more room to get the passenger mount off and back on.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I got the new motor mounts in the S4 and everything back together. Lots of good advice from you guys.
Opening up the clear holes on the plenum support bracket with a Dremel grinder helped a lot.
I was able to get the aft plenum support bracket bolt on/off with a 17mm crows foot adapter on a 20” 3/8 drive extension. I tied the stiff AC hose off with a cord to move it outboard and out of the way to get more access on reassembly. This is the hose that causes interference for the aft plenum support bolt.
On the passenger side I tightened all of the bolts on the engine mount before reinstalling the intake assembly. This was not the recommended method, but I figured I could undo it all if necessary. Instead, from under the car, I was able to see the alignment of the aft plenum bracket hole and the threaded plenum bolt hole. Their alignment was close, but not clear for the bolt. With the point of a long rod inserted in the threaded plenum fastener hole, I was able to bump the bracket over to match the aft bolt hole alignment. With this, I did not have to loosen any of the engine mount fasteners.
I did use the method of removing the drivers engine mount, and then removing the passenger side. I used a section of 2X4 as a pry bar between the pan and suspension structure to move The engine side to side while of a floor jack. This helped a lot.
The motor mounts on this car had been replaced before. They recycled the upper part of the passenger mount, and replaced the lower rubber portion. I did the same.
The 13mm threads on the studs on the block on the passenger side had been flat spotted from the engine mount being dragged over the threads. If I had it to do over, I would have tried to run a tap over the threads to help get the nuts to start and run move easily.
From what I could decipher, the starter support incorporated into the passenger mount is unique to S4. And perhaps unique to USA versions. Classic Alfa in England had not encountered the starter support style passenger engine mount. I was fortunate to have purchased standard mounts from Centerline that enabled the swap.
The car does feel better on the road. Thank you all for your valuable feedback. Attached are photos of the passenger engine mount as removed from the car and the new donor mount before swapping the rubber base.
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I got rid of those 17 mm hex head bolts that secure the upper strut to the intake plenum, and I used socket head cap screws. You stick a long Allen wrench up in there with the socket head cap screw on it, and it's much easier to get it started.
No bulky socket required.
 
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