1992 Alfa Romeo Spider interior lighting and parking brake

3344 Views 35 Replies 4 Participants Last post by spiderserie4, Jan 15, 2021

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · Jan 10, 2021

Around a year ago I was driving home from my brother's house and hit a pothole on the parkway. Immediately after hitting the pothole, I noticed I had footwell lights. Previous to this occurrence, I had no idea there were footwell lights in the car. As I easily gained footwell lights in my car I lost the instrument cluster illumination(the green illumination behind the tach, speedo, fuel, oil pressure, temp gauge, battery gauge). If anyone has any input please do not hesitate!!
Also, if anyone has any tips on how to adjust the parking brake shoes, please help...

A little history:
Was gifted the car as a high school graduation gift and have taken care of the car ever since (Still looking for Mrs. Robinson). When I received it I replaced the stereo and speakers(a difficult task at first but seems extremely simple now). Upon arrival, last semester from college had no clutch pedal. So just replaced the slave cylinder and clutch hose. Works well now. I also had a weak parking brake, so I replaced the parking brake shoes. The car now has 191,000 miles on it, as instructed I change the oil every 3K and check my fluids probably too often lol.

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Gubi

· #2 · Jan 10, 2021

If you remove the rear wheels you'll see a round hole in the face of the hub. Rotate the hub so you can see the star-shaped adjuster through that hole (I believe it's with the hole towards the front of the car). With the parking brake disengaged, use a screwdriver and turn the adjuster until the hub doesn't turn, then back it off a notch or two until it turns freely. Do this on both sides and you should be done. There's also a screw adjustment underneath the car if you need to take any slack out of the cable.

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 10, 2021

Gubi said:
If you remove the rear wheels you'll see a round hole in the face of the hub. Rotate the hub so you can see the star-shaped adjuster through that hole (I believe it's with the hole towards the front of the car). With the parking brake disengaged, use a screwdriver and turn the adjuster until the hub doesn't turn, then back it off a notch or two until it turns freely. Do this on both sides and you should be done. There's also a screw adjustment underneath the car if you need to take any slack out of the cable.

I have not messed around with the shoe adjusters yet. I have only messed with the adjuster under the car next to the driveshaft and noticed it only made minuscule adjustments to the friction of shoes against the drums. I'll bang out the adjustment of the shoes through the hub tomorrow morning.

JeroenD

· #4 · Jan 10, 2021

You mentioned you had a weak parking brake and replaced the parking brake shoes. But those parking brake shoes don’t really wear out at all. Because the parking brake tends to be applied with the car stopped/parked. Was any wear visible when you replaced them, or did they get grease/oil on them or so?

If the parking brakes on just about any car does not work properly, the first thing I would check is the shoe adjuster and neet the cable adjuster.

The shoe adjusters are not meant for taking up the slack in the handbrake wire mechanism. First set the shoe adjusters correctly, next you take out the slack in in the cable with that adjuster next to the driveshaft.

Good luck

Jeroen

spiderserie4

· #5 · Jan 10, 2021

if you lost the instrument illumination try the little wheel on the knee pad, the rheostat.....that makes them go bright/dull
could be the wheel has gone all the way to dull.....roll it a few times back and forth.
if that does nothing pull out the switch and check the connector hasn't fallen off.
Also check the fuses (7, 8 and 10)
the instrument illumination lights (there are 7 bulbs in all, so can't all have blown at once!) only works with the lights on, btw.

just a FYI.
the footwell lights you just discovered have 3 positions (you press the light itself, its like a toggle): always off, always on, and 'timed' (which means they stay on about 10 secs after the door has been closed)
Easy to knock on by mistake, and if they stay on overnight, your battery will be flat.

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 10, 2021

2

+++

JeroenD said:
You mentioned you had a weak parking brake and replaced the parking brake shoes. But those parking brake shoes don’t really wear out at all. Because the parking brake tends to be applied with the car stopped/parked. Was any wear visible when you replaced them, or did they get grease/oil on them or so?

If the parking brakes on just about any car does not work properly, the first thing I would check is the shoe adjuster and neet the cable adjuster.

The shoe adjusters are not meant for taking up the slack in the handbrake wire mechanism. First set the shoe adjusters correctly, next you take out the slack in in the cable with that adjuster next to the driveshaft.

Good luck

Jeroen

As mentioned before, I received the car with 187,000 miles on it. (not that it makes a difference, but who knows if a previous owner was negligent to release the parking brake on a drive) However after removing rotors, the brake material on the original shoes was nonexistent, it seemed as if it cracked off the brake shoe assembly. I did not take pictures of originals but consulted with my father and it appeared that was the issue. Here are some pictures of the new brake shoes installed. I was able to tighten up the brake shoes using the adjuster. Thank you!

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Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 10, 2021

spiderserie4 said:
if you lost the instrument illumination try the little wheel on the knee pad, the rheostat.....that makes them go bright/dull
could be the wheel has gone all the way to dull.....roll it a few times back and forth.
if that does nothing pull out the switch and check the connector hasn't fallen off.
Also check the fuses (7, 8 and 10)
the instrument illumination lights (there are 7 bulbs in all, so can't all have blown at once!) only works with the lights on, btw.

just a FYI.
the footwell lights you just discovered have 3 positions (you press the light itself, its like a toggle): always off, always on, and 'timed' (which means they stay on about 10 secs after the door has been closed)
Easy to knock on by mistake, and if they stay on overnight, your battery will be flat.

Dom,
I do not believe the lamp dimmer rheostat seems to be the issue. Is there a way of testing this? The green lights that illuminate the instrument cluster and the lights that illuminate the climate control, clock, window controls, and the ring around the cigarette lighter do not work. I replaced all the fuses in the car and cleaned up connectors with contact cleaner. Are there any grounds that you suggest I clean? I haven't found any. In addition to the interior lights not working my stereo unit has also lost power. The only working interior lights are the footwell lamps and the sunvisor light for passenger. The timed footwell lights do not work either, it is on or off for me as of now. Any ideas? Grazie!

Gubi

· #8 · Jan 11, 2021

Pop the rheostat out of the dash by prying it out. Make sure the connector is connected.

If it is, run a jumper between the yellow and white/black wires in the connector. This will bypass the rheostat and you can see if the lights work that way.

spiderserie4

· #9 · Jan 11, 2021 (Edited)

the timed footwell lights delay require the relay...is that in place?
maybe it is not working, or, as they are difficult to find, someone has removed it and jumped the socket, so lights just have on/off as you open the door...?
It is the 3rd relay from left, top row, in fusebox, a SIPEA 0679

I know there is a ground for the instrument lights, but I'm not 100% sure where it is....on the diagram it is named "G54b"
Under the rear shelf, there is a ground point on the driver's side...that would be my guess, but it is only a guess ...
(I should have undone it when I was in there last and checked if the instrument illumination lights went out...duh)

Floor Khaki Beige Tan Composite material

EDIT: I just checked mine and sorry but no, that is not ground G54b, neither is the bundle on the other side, near the ECU.
So G54b alludes me so far.

@Angelo Cat
do you have the Papajam colored wiring diagram for your 92 spider?
If not I can send a pdf by private message ("conversation")

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Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 11, 2021

spiderserie4 said:
the timed footwell lights delay require the relay...is that in place?
maybe it is not working, or, as they are difficult to find, someone has removed it and jumped the socket, so lights just have on/off as you open the door...?
It is the 3rd relay from left, top row, in fusebox, a SIPEA 0679

I know there is a ground for the instrument lights, but I'm not 100% sure where it is....on the diagram it is named "G54b"
Under the rear shelf, there is a ground point on the driver's side...that would be my guess, but it is only a guess ...
(I should have undone it when I was in there last and checked if the instrument illumination lights went out...duh)
View attachment 1667438

@Angelo Cat
do you have the Papajam colored wiring diagram for your 92 spider?
If not I can send a pdf by private message ("conversation")

This is a picture of the fuse box as of now. I will definitely check out that ground later when I get home.

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spiderserie4

· #11 · Jan 11, 2021

Angelo Cat said:
I will definitely check out that ground later when I get home.

I edited my post above, as I just checked.
That is not not ground G54b, neither is the one on the other side, near the ECU (the one near the ecu is likely fuel pump grounds)

Not sure if this is from an S4, but another bundle of grounds appears to be up near the fuse box

Electrical wiring Technology Wire Cable Circuit component

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Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 12, 2021

Gubi said:
Pop the rheostat out of the dash by prying it out. Make sure the connector is connected.

If it is, run a jumper between the yellow and white/black wires in the connector. This will bypass the rheostat and you can see if the lights work that way.

Tom,
I just tried the method of bypassing the light dimmer by jumping and still no luck. It almost seems as if I am digging myself a bigger hole. I tested after that and now I have no power to the tachometer, no red lights that illuminate the engine lights, still no instrument lights, and now only my passenger (right) window is operational. I cleaned up the ground that Dom mentioned, but I do not think that is a possible cause of my issues. Although the electrical world is falling all around me, the parking brake works great now! Thank you for your input regarding that!
-Angelo C

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Gubi

· #13 · Jan 12, 2021

Holy cascading failures, Batman! You only jumpered the yellow & white/black wires, right, and not the black one? Black one'll pop a fuse.

I'd go through and carefully check the fuses one by one, sometimes it's hard to tell if they're blown. If that's not it you're going to have to do some troubleshooting with a voltmeter. I can PM you a wiring diagram you can use.

If one window going out is related (and it might not be...could always be a separate problem) then it's possible you've got an issue with connector G84B? That handles lights, radio, windows, mirrors, couple other things. Maybe it came partly disconnected? It should be somewhere in front of the center console, probably a PITA to get to unfortunately.

Start with the wiring diagram and check for power & grounds first...try to track the circuits from the fusebox and see where you lost power.

Gubi

· #14 · Jan 12, 2021

Also while I'm thinking about fuses, swing down the fusebox (there's a clip towards the front of the car and it swings back towards you on hinges) and ensure all the plugs & connectors on the back are snug.

Any chance it was raining around the time this happened? The cowl drain hoses can leak into the fusebox area and cause all sorts of gremlins.

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 12, 2021

Gubi said:
Also while I'm thinking about fuses, swing down the fusebox (there's a clip towards the front of the car and it swings back towards you on hinges) and ensure all the plugs & connectors on the back are snug.

Any chance it was raining around the time this happened? The cowl drain hoses can leak into the fusebox area and cause all sorts of gremlins.

Tom,
HAHAHAHA! All fuses are good just tested them. I also did in fact jumper all three cables (incorrectly) but still no pop in the fuse, all clean as a whistle! Do u have an area where I should attack to get to connector G84B? Lucky for me I have had issues in the past and attempted this lighting job numerous jobs with no luck so I have gained much experience in taking apart the dash lol. I think the next time, I will be able to do it with my eyes closed and arms behind my back! It was not raining when the instrument lights went out, just a behemoth pothole. I am going to check all plugs and connectors are snug right now. Any ideas concerning my loss of tachometer and red instrument lights? I do indeed still have my flashers blue light indicator and that is very important!
Thanks,
-Angelo C

Gubi

· #16 · Jan 12, 2021

I don't know where that connector is, sorry. I'd probably start at the back of the fusebox and trace power on each wire as best I could.

Like, dash lights: do you have power at the yellow wire out of fuse 10 with the parking lights on? If it's good there, check the other end at the dimmer, power there? Then check the black wire at the dimmer, see if it has ground. Then with the dimmer plugged in, is there power coming out on the black/white wire?

Work forwards and back on each circuit, see where you're losing power or good ground - that'll give you some clues. You can do this with a multimeter but honestly I find a cheap test probe easier for quick troubleshooting.

Gubi

· #17 · Jan 12, 2021

Angelo Cat said:
I also did in fact jumper all three cables (incorrectly) but still no pop in the fuse, all clean as a whistle!

Okay, I missed that the first time. That suggests you don't have power at fuse #10, and there should be power there with the parking lights on. Do your parking lights work?

If you don't have power to 10 you'll need to trace backwards (headlight switch and its power feed from the fusebox).

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 12, 2021

Gubi said:
Okay, I missed that the first time. That suggests you don't have power at fuse #10, and there should be power there with the parking lights on. Do your parking lights work?

If you don't have power to 10 you'll need to trace backwards (headlight switch and its power feed from the fusebox).

Just looked at parking lights. I only have power running to the front right, rear right light on the side bumper, and the left tail light. There are no lights on the front left, rear left bumper, and right tail light.

Gubi

· #19 · Jan 12, 2021

Okay, then maybe you've got some burned out bulbs on top of your other problems, since looking at the wiring diagram that's kind of a strange way for it to fail.

I'm not having any brilliant ideas beyond tracing power as best you can, sorry. Only other thing I can suggest is check your battery clamps are tight, I've had a big bump knock one loose, but then I'd think you'd have running problems too.

Angelo Cat

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 12, 2021

Gubi said:
Okay, then maybe you've got some burned out bulbs on top of your other problems, since looking at the wiring diagram that's kind of a strange way for it to fail.

I'm not having any brilliant ideas beyond tracing power as best you can, sorry. Only other thing I can suggest is check your battery clamps are tight, I've had a big bump knock one loose, but then I'd think you'd have running problems too.

Tom,
I am really starting to believe that I have the best 1992 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce! I am just figuring out that there are 8 running lights that are functional. I guess when I got the car at 17 I was so busy driving it I didn't realize half of the issues I had at the time! Good thing I knew how to change oil though. Anyway, I am pulling off running lights and noticing connections are all corroded and lamps are burned out. Do you know if the plastic part that the bulb plugs into is sold separately? One one of the lamps the connection was so corroded it snapped off! Looks like I need a lot more than just instrument lights, I would much rather have people knowing I am on the road than knowing my own speed! Looks like the markings on the plastic say "H1W3W".

As always, any suggestions?

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