Did you look at #87 in the FAQ at the top of the forum???
1987 spider graduate removal of head
Can someone tell me the name of a manual that would lead me step by step to remove my head. I already have the valve cover off and determined i might as well pull the head. I searched the forums and no real help in tearing down the fuel injection side of this and no step by step removal. Ordered a shop repair manual off of ebay but that has nothing about the head removal. Thanks ahead of time for any help. garyl
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Also, get this CarDisc CD-ROM. It not only has the factory Shop Manual, but it also has other technical publications like the Engine Overhaul Manual and the Convertible Top Installation Manual.
Thanks for the info
Thanks a lot to jcslocum,gv27,and slash i think now i can do it. Since i am a new alfa owner i sure am glad i found this site. I am old and slow but i will do it. The way i see it you need to be retired to own one of these but i have owned about every sport car in past years, and i fell in love with the way this car handled. So here i go thanks again i will let u know if i made it or not. garyl
Thanks a lot to jcslocum,gv27,and slash i think now i can do it. Since i am a new alfa owner i sure am glad i found this site. I am old and slow but i will do it. The way i see it you need to be retired to own one of these but i have owned about every sport car in past years, and i fell in love with the way this car handled. So here i go thanks again i will let u know if i made it or not. garyl
You're welcome. Let us know what happens and/or if you get stuck. Lots of us have done this and many will do it again, I'll bet.
Removal of head on 87 Spider Graduate
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Gary, If you can get to one, the Alfa Bible has a section that covers just your question. I am away from home in Tallahassee, FL, but will return home to Prattville, AL on Monday. If you still need it, I can scan it and send to you. My phone is 334-358-6020. O.T. Johnson, 86 Alfa Graduate, 2004 Motto Guzzi Breva 750IE. If I remember, it involves using a rope. Good luck!Can someone tell me the name of a manual that would lead me step by step to remove my head. I already have the valve cover off and determined i might as well pull the head. I searched the forums and no real help in tearing down the fuel injection side of this and no step by step removal. Ordered a shop repair manual off of ebay but that has nothing about the head removal. Thanks ahead of time for any help. garyl
help need to make a decision
After i looked at this head real good and started digging around in the oil. I found metal shavings, also cleaned cams up and they looked awful, worn lobes and burnt in paces. This car is in excellent condition bought new in Atlanta, Ga by a lady who is now 73. She had 137k miles on the car when it was parked 4 years ago but i found documentation that the miles were the same in 1997 also so the odo broken then. So how many miles the car actually has is any ones guess. I am not sure about the condition of the lower end of this engine, so i am looking to spend a lot of money if it is not good. I have already spent 1k on the car and not even started. New water pump, thermostat, and hoses and parts for top of engine, with new wheels and tires. I now have 3k tied up in it which is not a lot. I cannot see putting a lot of money in this engine, i have found one at a sport junk yard close to me, 1987 velonce which should be same as my graduate for 750.00 and has 70k miles on it. I have heard this run 1 time and it sounded pretty good no noise like i had in top of motor. I will check it out further before i buy. My question to the alfa owners should i try to sell this 1987 graduate and get my 3k back, or keep pouring money in it. I would like to have me one with out all this fancy stuff on it as i call it. I am 66 and my nerves are not what they used to be, and my wife's either with me. I assume u would agree with me the engine in this car needs to be gone. I could run into another problem with this other engine. This car is in amazing condition as far as the body paint and top no rust any where, but is black on black. Needs shocks, and the dash cluster fixed i guess no odo or temp. guage front seats need repair.
After i looked at this head real good and started digging around in the oil. I found metal shavings, also cleaned cams up and they looked awful, worn lobes and burnt in paces. This car is in excellent condition bought new in Atlanta, Ga by a lady who is now 73. She had 137k miles on the car when it was parked 4 years ago but i found documentation that the miles were the same in 1997 also so the odo broken then. So how many miles the car actually has is any ones guess. I am not sure about the condition of the lower end of this engine, so i am looking to spend a lot of money if it is not good. I have already spent 1k on the car and not even started. New water pump, thermostat, and hoses and parts for top of engine, with new wheels and tires. I now have 3k tied up in it which is not a lot. I cannot see putting a lot of money in this engine, i have found one at a sport junk yard close to me, 1987 velonce which should be same as my graduate for 750.00 and has 70k miles on it. I have heard this run 1 time and it sounded pretty good no noise like i had in top of motor. I will check it out further before i buy. My question to the alfa owners should i try to sell this 1987 graduate and get my 3k back, or keep pouring money in it. I would like to have me one with out all this fancy stuff on it as i call it. I am 66 and my nerves are not what they used to be, and my wife's either with me. I assume u would agree with me the engine in this car needs to be gone. I could run into another problem with this other engine. This car is in amazing condition as far as the body paint and top no rust any where, but is black on black. Needs shocks, and the dash cluster fixed i guess no odo or temp. guage front seats need repair.
decision time post
I read that post and it just sounds stupid. So you all can say that now i want get mad. What i meant, where do u make the decision to jump out. I don't mind doing the work but every thing is over whelming on this car. I am sort of a logical person and don't like pouring money into a hole and get no return in satisfaction. enough if any one would like a 3k nice car will run but on two cylinders i will send pics. Thanks garyl P.S. i know i opened myself up for a few replies lol.
I read that post and it just sounds stupid. So you all can say that now i want get mad. What i meant, where do u make the decision to jump out. I don't mind doing the work but every thing is over whelming on this car. I am sort of a logical person and don't like pouring money into a hole and get no return in satisfaction. enough if any one would like a 3k nice car will run but on two cylinders i will send pics. Thanks garyl P.S. i know i opened myself up for a few replies lol.
Gary, allow me to add my welcome.
As to whether you should cut your losses and sell, who can know? IMO, the biggest killer of these cars is rust - closely followed by deferred maintenance. I suspect you are finding how expensive it can be trying to catch up after the car has been unloved for a while. However, as long as you are not having to deal with rust, all the mechanical things are fixable. And if you go through the whole car fixing/rebuilding all the mechanical systems you'll end with a unique car that can be both fun & reliable. But if you just fix today's problem without addressing all the other things that are about to fail, you'll never get to enjoy the fun & reliable part.
FWIW, I bought our '84 Spider as a project car. It had sat unused for a few years. I trailered it home, rebuilt the engine, installed a new clutch, rebuilt/replaced all the hydraulics/brakes and put on a new top & had some split seams in the upholstry re-stitched. So, for much less monetary outlay than a 2 year old Toyota we now have a car that is unique, fun, reliable and I know it inside & out.
Now if you had asked before buying we would have advised you that spending a bit more for a well-cared for example would, in the long run, be cheaper. But it's not just about economics is it...?
As to whether you should cut your losses and sell, who can know? IMO, the biggest killer of these cars is rust - closely followed by deferred maintenance. I suspect you are finding how expensive it can be trying to catch up after the car has been unloved for a while. However, as long as you are not having to deal with rust, all the mechanical things are fixable. And if you go through the whole car fixing/rebuilding all the mechanical systems you'll end with a unique car that can be both fun & reliable. But if you just fix today's problem without addressing all the other things that are about to fail, you'll never get to enjoy the fun & reliable part.
FWIW, I bought our '84 Spider as a project car. It had sat unused for a few years. I trailered it home, rebuilt the engine, installed a new clutch, rebuilt/replaced all the hydraulics/brakes and put on a new top & had some split seams in the upholstry re-stitched. So, for much less monetary outlay than a 2 year old Toyota we now have a car that is unique, fun, reliable and I know it inside & out.
Now if you had asked before buying we would have advised you that spending a bit more for a well-cared for example would, in the long run, be cheaper. But it's not just about economics is it...?
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decision made
Well after a little thought what the hell i just jumped in got the head off and to my surprise every thing looked good. Looks like i had a fuel injector problem with some worn lobes on a cam shaft but nothing that can't be fixed. So after 4 hours head off and ready to go to the shop, send my fuel rail to the cleaner, and do a whole lot of cleaning in the time between repairs. So i guess u might say i have joined the alfa club 100%, thanks for the info my friends. I might take a few pics and post of job in progress. garyl
Well after a little thought what the hell i just jumped in got the head off and to my surprise every thing looked good. Looks like i had a fuel injector problem with some worn lobes on a cam shaft but nothing that can't be fixed. So after 4 hours head off and ready to go to the shop, send my fuel rail to the cleaner, and do a whole lot of cleaning in the time between repairs. So i guess u might say i have joined the alfa club 100%, thanks for the info my friends. I might take a few pics and post of job in progress. garyl
MIGHT?!?! Sir, that is a requirement. (extra credit for a pretty woman in the photo)I might take a few pics and post of job in progress.
engine head
Well just got back from the head shop and found out right off one of my valve seats came loose and some how the car ate it, he said if the piston was not scared up it went out the exhaust. At any rate don't look good for that head he said he would look into it. I would like to find a good head, any suggestions.Thanks garyl
Well just got back from the head shop and found out right off one of my valve seats came loose and some how the car ate it, he said if the piston was not scared up it went out the exhaust. At any rate don't look good for that head he said he would look into it. I would like to find a good head, any suggestions.Thanks garyl
I wouldn't discount the original head if the only problem is one valve seat. I have not had to replace a seat in 15 years so I don't know what the availability is but there are certainly other folks on here that do. If you need a replacement head there are several options: Alfa Parts Exchange (APE), Centerline, IAP, and possibly Spruell to name a few. I recently had a bare bones valve job done (guides, seats ground, and 0.008 inches cut to ensure flatness) for about $200 just to give you a reference point. If you start replacing parts, a rebuilt head from one of the vendors starts to look pretty good.
head removal
Some more bad news,my head was completely worn out. No way to save it or very few of the parts in it. If the head is worn that bad then the bottom end would have to be worn very bad also. I found an engine running in a car that was destroyed by one of the tornadoes that came thru Al. Going to do a compression check and look it over very good,has 70k miles on it. Now i got to get down to changing the engines over. I am getting deeper and deeper but learning a lot in the mean time. I would guess that there is some info in the forums the best route to take to do this i will search. garyl
Some more bad news,my head was completely worn out. No way to save it or very few of the parts in it. If the head is worn that bad then the bottom end would have to be worn very bad also. I found an engine running in a car that was destroyed by one of the tornadoes that came thru Al. Going to do a compression check and look it over very good,has 70k miles on it. Now i got to get down to changing the engines over. I am getting deeper and deeper but learning a lot in the mean time. I would guess that there is some info in the forums the best route to take to do this i will search. garyl
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