Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My 1984 GTV6 has just decided it's not going to start at all. It has been great up until a few months ago when the weather here in MD got colder. It used to start first turn of the key - every time (warm or cold weather), and runs great once started. As it progressed over the winter, though, if I didn't catch it when it first fired, it wouldn't start. As of yesterday, it would not start at all. I've checked the basics - it's got plenty of gas, fuses all appear to be good. Most everything is new within the past 5 years or so: fuel pump and lines; coil; plugs and wires; relays; and more. I haven't done any work on the car recently that would have done this.

Can anyone help me get a handle on what I should try so I can diagnose/address this problem? It's stuck in my garage, and I can't get it out to Difatta Brothers for help. Any advise would be appreciated - thanks!
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
My 1984 GTV6 has just decided it's not going to start at all. It has been great up until a few months ago when the weather here in MD got colder. It used to start first turn of the key - every time (warm or cold weather), and runs great once started. As it progressed over the winter, though, if I didn't catch it when it first fired, it wouldn't start. As of yesterday, it would not start at all. I've checked the basics - it's got plenty of gas, fuses all appear to be good. Most everything is new within the past 5 years or so: fuel pump and lines; coil; plugs and wires; relays; and more. I haven't done any work on the car recently that would have done this.

Can anyone help me get a handle on what I should try so I can diagnose/address this problem? It's stuck in my garage, and I can't get it out to Difatta Brothers for help. Any advise would be appreciated - thanks!
Steve
When you say it wont start, does it have power and does it just click or does it turn over and wont start?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It is turning over normally. Starter is fine, battery is fine. I have it on a battery tender, so the battery stays healthy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Ok, do you hear the fuel pump come on? Turn the key to the on position, you should hear a buzzing, it will originate from the passenger side near the rear wheel, if you do not hear it, then the fuel pump is not coming on, if you hear it, that's good, probably OK, however could still be a problem, however you would have certain symptoms if you had a "weak" fuel pump such as it cuts out or you have little power when it has warmed up after driving for awhile. So if you hear it, then you can move onto other possibilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It had a few gallons left from this past October. I just went out and got a fresh gallon this afternoon and put it in there. Still did not start -
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I can't hear the fuel pump come on - but I never really ever could. The fuel pump and filter were replaced about 5 years ago. Helped Difatta do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
I would turn key to on position, go to the passenger rear side, you will for sure hear it if its working, it is a low buzzing sound, here is a youtube video on an alfetta, has the same basic fuel pump, this one is making some odd noises, however the buzzing noise you here is what it should sound like, please exclude the weird gurgling noise and listen to the constant buzzing or whirring noise, as that is what you should hear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
You could multiple issues. That's some really old gas which may have lost it's octane. After a while it can separate and plug up your fuel filter, fuel pump, and well, you get the picture. If the fuel pump is making noise it could be bad gas in the system, or a blockage. I would start by replacing the fuel filter and see what color the gas is. If it's a dark color you might have to drain it all out and start over.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,784 Posts
You need to pop the top on the air cleaner and stick a screw drive into the opening for the air meter to move the flap in order to hear the fuel pump. With key in the run position. I own an '84 GTV6 and have to deal with this more than I'd like.

Have you pulled a plug to see if you smell gas?
When you pull a plug, see if you have spark by trying to start the car and observing for a spark on the plug. Make sure the plug is sitting on a surface that will ground it.

You need fuel, spark, air and compression to make it run. I don't mean to sound pedantic, but you have to work through that progression. Air is usually a given.

Is your cold start injector plugged in? Is your temperature sensor working?

Start with the simple and progress from there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,861 Posts
Did you check/clean the distributor insides?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks to all of you guys for your responses - you guys are great, and I really appreciate it! I'm going to run through all of that stuff tomorrow, when I have a helper.

I'm really hoping it's not a fuel pump replacement job. I'm not sure how I could get that done in my cramped little garage with no lift!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,784 Posts
Actually, not a particularly difficult task. Jack up the rear end, place jack stands under the jacking points at the sill (don't do it anywhere else or you'll bend things). If you need a bit more wiggle room, remove the tire and wheel. Clamp shut the hose from the tank, two hose clamps, power and ground and voila! Done. It would be worth your while to change the fuel filter and install a filter from the tank to the pump.

If you find that the pump is running, do a pressure check. Usually people plumb in the fuel pressure gauge at the cold start injector at the back of the plenum.

Check for spark before you go through this process. The rule is that "80% of fuel issues are actually the ignition...and vice versa."
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,000 Posts
The fuel pump does not run just by turning on the ignition. It also needs either the starter to be turning or the engine to be running. The screwdriver trick fakes out the engine running.
You can buy a fuel pressure gauge from Harbor Freight for about $20. If you Tee it into the hose to the cold start injector you will be able to see exactly what is going on with the fuel. I had one permanently installed for a couple of years and it warded off the fool pump evil spirits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
Check the ground points on the rear of the right side cam cover, these are the ground points for the injectors there are 5 or 6 black wires two of these are crucial for the injectors to pulse.
Then pull all the sparkplugs and clean them no matter how confident you are that the plugs are not the problem. Buy a can of circuit board cleaner and spray the temp sensor on the thermostat and the dual relay contacts. Check spark as discribed earlier, it is essential the battery is fully charged. If the car won't start after checking these points. Then move on to fuel delivery through the fuel pump and fuel pressure, just because the fuel pump is working does not mean there is enough pressure for the fuel delivery to work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
My 1984 GTV6 has just decided it's not going to start at all. It has been great up until a few months ago when the weather here in MD got colder. It used to start first turn of the key - every time (warm or cold weather), and runs great once started. As it progressed over the winter, though, if I didn't catch it when it first fired, it wouldn't start. As of yesterday, it would not start at all. I've checked the basics - it's got plenty of gas, fuses all appear to be good. Most everything is new within the past 5 years or so: fuel pump and lines; coil; plugs and wires; relays; and more. I haven't done any work on the car recently that would have done this.

Can anyone help me get a handle on what I should try so I can diagnose/address this problem? It's stuck in my garage, and I can't get it out to Difatta Brothers for help. Any advise would be appreciated - thanks!
Steve
I had the same issue. Turned out to be the Bosch fuel injection relay. Good news is it takes three minutes to change. It’s the square black plastic relay under the hood in plain sight held with one Phillips screw on the passenger side cowl at the base of the windshield aft of the windshield wiper motor. A tad pricey (for what it is) but a simple fix.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,861 Posts
Have you checked and cleaned the insides of the distributor? Had this problem with one of my GTV6s, and turned out that there were corrosion deposits on both the rotor and the cap inside contacts. Scraped them off, and wiped the inside of the cap with WD40 to eliminate carbon tracks. Started just fine afterwards.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
585 Posts
Lots of ideas here. If you have a spare spark plug just take a lead out of the head and push your spare in, check for spark, unplug the electrical connector for the cold start injector if you want to prevent fuel from being injected from there. Pop the air cleaner up, with the key in run and move the flap to turn on the fuel pump. If both those things check out correctly I would recommend at that point just going thru the Ljet troubleshooting guide.

I guess another quick thing to check is to pop off the two round caps on the timing belt cover and roll the car forward in fourth gear to see if both cam marks line up with the pointers on the cam covers simultaneously. After the spark and fuel pump though. Don't roll it backwards at all.

Cheers,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I had the same issue. Turned out to be the Bosch fuel injection relay. Good news is it takes three minutes to change. It’s the square black plastic relay under the hood in plain sight held with one Phillips screw on the passenger side cowl at the base of the windshield aft of the windshield wiper motor. A tad pricey (for what it is) but a simple fix.
Thanks gadeko - I hadn't considered that! Do you happen to know where I might find one of these fuel injection relays?
s
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top