1984 GTV6 Engine Runs & Shuts Down in Ignition "Run Position"

5653 Views 22 Replies 12 Participants Last post by gt601, May 28, 2011

crusaderchuck

Discussion Starter · Mar 1, 2011 (Edited)

Car starts. Positive fuel pressure at cold start injector and at all 6 injectors. Cam timing spot-on. Ignition timing spot-on. Plugs new. Plug wires new. Fuel pump new. Iginition switch new.

Tested positive pulse at cold start injector and all 6 injectors. Move air flap and fuel pump runs corrrectly. Fuel pump relay clicks when air flap is moved. Tested for positive grounds between chassis and engine. Coil tests to be good.

Engine fires when cranking with key in "start" posistion. When key is released to "run position" engine dies as if loses fuel pressure or ignition ignitor fails to trigger ignition in "run position".

Fuse in fuse box position #4 must be kept out of car. With #4 fuse installed, starter engages by itself and fuel pump runs constantly with key out of ignition.

Car has battery master kill switch installed in trunk. The moment you turn the switch on to energize car, all of this happens related to the #4 fuse. With #4 fuse out of fuse box, car functions "normally". Starter engages in "start position", car tries to start, but when key released to "run position" car slowly dies after a few seconds.

Is this the sign of a bad ignitor???? Or can you PLEASE help me to direct me to what to test next. Remember this is the car that has been sitting 18+ years without running. I have posted previously on the Forum with other issues and have received excellent help. The car is almost there. I hope someone can help me make this car run properly again. Thank you.

Chuck
(Tearing my thinning hair out! lol!)

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

ghnl

· #2 · Mar 1, 2011

Since my knowledge of things electrical is limited to the Smoke Theory, I can't offer much in the way of a solution. I would suggest contacting BB member & AROC tech advisor PapaJam (aka Jim Neil). Perhaps we can pressure him to make his excellent color-coded wire diagrams for our models of Alfa Romeos. His versions are much better than the cryptic Alfa shop manual diagrams.

rob mcmahan

· #3 · Mar 2, 2011

check main cable between starter and block.

i had the same sort of thing going on with my 85 gtv6. over 3 year period changed ignition switch, fuse box, wiring, push started car for a while and assorted other things. wasn't till i pulled the motor to repaint that i noticed burn marks on the cable which was shorting out against the block periodically. thought the car was lucifer reincarnated. things i experienced...

-inconsistent engagement of starter
-no solenoid engagement
-fuse box smoking with key in crank position
-fuse box on fire with key out of ignition
-starter engaging while walking in house with key in hand

rob

DOM!

· #4 · Mar 3, 2011

Make sure to check the black grounding wires for the fuel injection on the valve cover near the back of the motor. I forgot to connect those once and got the condition you describe.

ToonRboy

· #5 · Mar 4, 2011

Fuse in fuse box position #4 must be kept out of car. With #4 fuse installed, starter engages by itself and fuel pump runs constantly with key out of ignition. Car has battery master kill switch installed in trunk. The moment you turn the switch on to energize car, all of this happens related to the #4 fuse. With #4 fuse out of fuse box, car functions "normally". Starter engages in "start position", car tries to start, but when key released to "run position" car slowly dies after a few seconds.

Is this the sign of a bad ignitor???? Or can you PLEASE help me to direct me to what to test next. Remember this is the car that has been sitting 18+ years without running.

Assuming you installed the new ignition switch in an attempt to resolve this issue (being that it's hard to wire incorrectly), I would say drop the fuse box out and remove the bottom cover and take a look at your wiring. Car sitting for that long invites critters and such. You've got a bad short somewhere. That's where I'd start.

The fusebox is held in by plastic rod "ears" that, on the left, slides through a hole in sheetmetal coming off the firewall next to the steering column, and on the right, snaps down. So pop right side up and then you can slide laterally to right removing the fusebox. The cover will come off if you squeeze and pry it - carefully.

...Because you DO have a potential short, it would be a good idea to disconnect the battery.

crusaderchuck

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 4, 2011

checking lots of stuff based upon responses.

fuse box is down out of it's swing down position. i've been looking for burns , shorts , rubbed through or any other type of damaged wiring to no avail to date. the only thing i can say with certainty is that the replacement ign switch had no provisions for the illumination.
this weekend is going to be a thorough cleaning and testing of the fuel injection system's componentry. after reading the great article on the car's specific F.I. system , i now want to test each part to be certain exactly where the car is with respect to each item working or not working. i assembled the boxes of pieces from pictures in the shop manual and on line pictures of other cars under hood. i was not the person who disassembled the car so long ago. also i have no other car to compare things either. evrything from firewall forward , electrically and mechanically was disassembled , with nothing tagged , bagged or marked. EVRYTHING! the steering and suspension was assembled, that's it! the car is very close to being a car again with thanks going to those who have read the posts and replied. i'll update after i have some serious investigation done based upon all leads offered.

thank you!
chuck

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ToonRboy

· #7 · Mar 4, 2011

i was not the person who disassembled the car so long ago. also i have no other car to compare things either. evrything from firewall forward , electrically and mechanically was disassembled , with nothing tagged , bagged or marked

Oh. ...That changes things.

gt601

· #8 · Mar 4, 2011

You might want to check the wiring at the starter. Either that or you just have a plain ol' bad switch.

Paul

rustysrustyduc

· #9 · May 11, 2011

I am now starting my car for the first time in EIGHT years. I got to run.. but only in the "start" position. But I found that if I jiggle the wires coming from my ignition switch, I can keep it running. I noticed this because if I can hear a buzzer going off, and lights on the dash, the car will run. If not, then the circuit dies.. and the motor along with it.

Not sure if this is your problem, but it is with my car.

johntennyson

· #10 · May 16, 2011

Now THAT one sounds like a faulty ignition switch. My experience is that they do wear out. I've had to replace them on an '81 Mercedes and an '86 Dodge van as well as my '84 GTV6. Hmmm. On the other hand, it just might be an '80s thing.

Chuck-- it's not the ignition switch? When mine failed, it was similarish, but the opposite: it would crank without firing on "start" and cough once, not quite starting, as I released the key. It just stopped closing the ignition circuit on "start," so I bump started it to get home. A new switch fixed it.

rustysrustyduc

· #11 · May 16, 2011

So how did you get the old ignition out? I just tried cutting a slot in the security bolt, and using a screwdriver. It didn't work. Now I'm guessing I'll have to Dremel tool the **** bolt flat so I can just drill it.

gt601

· #12 · May 18, 2011

You said that it dies slowly? That would point towards fuel. (i didn't read the 1st post carefully) You might try and see if the fuel pump comes on when you move the flap on the AFM (air flow meter) If it does not come this suggests that the wiring,AFM or dual relay is bad. I'm going by memory but I believe that when cranking the fuel pump runs off the starter signal. When the car starts the points in the AFM connect and that runs the relay to power the pump.
So... if the AFM is stuck closed or the connector has some wires that are pushed out it will not run. Also pull the rubber boot off of the backside (harness)of the connector and make sure that the pins are not pushed out.

Paul

Aggie57

· #13 · May 18, 2011

I had that once after an engine rebuild. Turned out to be the main power lead from the back of the fuse box to the double relay had been disconnected. Car starts and runs for a couple of seconds on the starter circuit but when that disconnects everything stopped.

Don't ask me how the two circuits should be wired - it was many years ago.

gt601

· #14 · May 18, 2011

Don't ask me how the two circuits should be wired - it was many years ago

Yeah, I'm shootin' from the same hip as you. It's been probably 10-12 years since I have had a GTV-6/ Milano that I had to troubleshoot for something like that.

Paul

Aggie57

· #15 · May 19, 2011

Is there a GTV6 wiring diagram on the BB somewhere? I have one in a factory manual if not, which I can scan and post.

rustysrustyduc

· #16 · May 19, 2011

I'd love to see that. I only have a Milano workshop manual which I thought would work for more than just the motor. But really, it doesn't.

alfaparticle

· #17 · May 19, 2011

The incoming power to the combo relay for the fuel pump is on terminal 88Y. The outgoing power to the fuel pump is on 88D. During starting the relay coil is pulled in by power on 86A. During running it is held in by power on 86B. The power to 86B comes from the switch in the AFM. The AFM switch gets its power from 88A on the relay. The coil for this relay is powered on terminal 86C. Check the voltages and see where you are losing power.

gt601

· #18 · May 19, 2011

Also. Before you just start replacing parts you need to test them. Get a test light and test the wiring at the ignition switch to see what is going on. You already have the cover off the column so the wires are right in front of you.

Paul

Aggie57

· #19 · May 28, 2011

GTV6 L-Jetronic Wiring Diagram

rustysrustyduc said:
I'd love to see that. I only have a Milano workshop manual which I thought would work for more than just the motor. But really, it doesn't.

Hope this helps. I had to resize it - if you want the original PM me and I'll email it over.

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alfettaparts

· #20 · May 28, 2011

LaGTV6techniqueEN

These might help.
Its easy to say but your issue will be a bad earth or a short somewhere. Keep looking.

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