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Hello,

Apologies if this question has already been posed, but I couldn’t find an exact answer out there and thought I would tap into the collective wisdom that is this BB before getting in too deep.

Regarding a U.S. spec 1974 GTV 2000, if one wanted to remove the factory (OEM) air conditioning and all its associated components, would this effect the heater and front windshield defroster? More specifically, are the two systems (heat and AC) independent?

Looks like the previous owner already started this job as I acquired the car with unterminated hoses, unterminated wiring, no compressor and some missing components. Moreover, I’m working through a complete rats nest of bizarre and seemingly creative wiring in which none of the electrics in this car are functional, so it’s hard to tell if the two systems are related, as in which switches operate what.

So, if the green in the pictures below stays and the red goes, will I still have heat, but no AC?

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I’m new to these cars, so please go easy on me. I pray that one day I’ll be answering questions instead of asking them.

Thanks,
chris
 

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Hi Chris, Welcome aboard! The heater and A/C systems are not totally independent. The heater valve for an A/C equipped GTV is slightly different than one in a non-A/C and was disabled when the A/C was in operation. But it should still work with the A/C removed. More complicated will be the rotary blower or fan control, which was located on the A/C center console. With that removed, you’ll need to rewire the fan and locate a new switch somewhere. Your GTV will have the “short” center console with only a single toggle by the cigarette lighter; the non-A/C “long” console would have the fan switch located on the other side of the cigarette lighter.

It appears that your A/C system is different than the “factory” since the evaporator unit is mounted under the glove box. So perhaps you have the standard non-A/C heater box that houses only the heater core and blower. If that is the case, some of my comments above may not apply.

Check out the link below for the factory parts diagrams on the A/C system.
 

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The under dash box circled in red is the standard heater. The under glovebox thing circled in green does look like an aftermarket AC evaporator.
 

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Chris, Do you have a picture of your center console? Curious if you have a long or short version? Whoever installed the A/C system hacked out the front battery tray so it maybe an aftermarket install by the dealer or a PO. In that case, your heater/defrost is probably independent from the A/C.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hi Chris, Welcome aboard! The heater and A/C systems are not totally independent. The heater valve for an A/C equipped GTV is slightly different than one in a non-A/C and was disabled when the A/C was in operation. But it should still work with the A/C removed. More complicated will be the rotary blower or fan control, which was located on the A/C center console. With that removed, you’ll need to rewire the fan and locate a new switch somewhere. Your GTV will have the “short” center console with only a single toggle by the cigarette lighter; the non-A/C “long” console would have the fan switch located on the other side of the cigarette lighter.

It appears that your A/C system is different than the “factory” since the evaporator unit is mounted under the glove box. So perhaps you have the standard non-A/C heater box that houses only the heater core and blower. If that is the case, some of my comments above may not apply.

Check out the link below for the factory parts diagrams on the A/C system.
Chris, Do you have a picture of your center console? Curious if you have a long or short version? Whoever installed the A/C system hacked out the front battery tray so it maybe an aftermarket install by the dealer or a PO. In that case, your heater/defrost is probably independent from the A/C.

Thanks Ken,

Your responses are very helpful, especially the link to the PDF file with the A/C parts, which confirms my equipment is definitely different than what’s in the diagrams.

I do have the short console with the three position fan switch on the passenger side (LHD) of the cigarette lighter, a three position wiper switch on the driver’s side of the lighter and a two position (fog lamp) switch beneath the heat/air sliders.

Below is the only image I have before I took the console apart to be reconditioned. It pretty much ends at the top of the image.

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The battery was relocated to the trunk, presumably to make space for the AC compressor.

I also have in one of many boxes a very small console with one directional vent, a temperature dial and a rotary fan speed knob, which has power, ground and three wires in a rubber connector that appear to plug directly into the unit beneath and inside the glove box (AC fan?). The main power to this console was tapped off the fuse box (dealer install?)

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The driver and passenger side vents are plumbed to the unit inside and beneath the glove box (AC), while the unit above the transmission tunnel appears to have at one point been plumbed to the dash vents (heat?), which are all disintegrated at this point.

It’s all starting to become clear, with your help of course.

Thanks again,
Chris
 

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Your car definitely never had factory AC. They had a different fan with a rotary control. Take all of this dead weight out, unless you want to make it work!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Your car definitely never had factory AC. They had a different fan with a rotary control. Take all of this dead weight out, unless you want to make it work!
At this point, I totally agree! Dead weight for sure and I don’t think I could ever make it work again because it probably never worked to begin with. Thanks for chiming in, the second opinion is appreciated!
 

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@yvesmontreal , I believe that you have your colors backwards.
I noticed that too, but the description was right enough to give it a pass. That’s probably my fault for presenting it in an easily confused manner. Thanks for clarifying.

You guys are all great. I honestly feel confident taking on this project in its entirety with the collective knowledge on this BB.
 

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Your system looks identical to the one in my GTV (74) and, from the documentation I have, was installed by the selling dealer. It was a Behr system, if I recall corrrectly. The good news is it all operated independently and was simple to remove. What I also found was my glovebox was hacked up and reassembled poorly so I had to find a used one to install back to factory spec. There were also holes in the firewall to contend with that I ultimately plugged using firewall rubber grommets/plugs that I found online. The holes were less than perfectly cut so I had to reshape and resize them a bit. I did not weld them up as I was considering adding an aftermarket unit in the future. One bit to consider, that I learned the hard way, is to pull out, clean, and repair the heater box completely. My car had sat for a bit (20 + years) prior to my rebuild and, while the heater fan was initially working, it died about 3 months after completing the interior. The motors are notoriously weak, I later learned. I then had to pull the heater box out (again) and replace the fan motor, etc. I also replaced the heater core and valve. It all now works really well.
 

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One typical failure mode of the fan motor is a squeaking sound when operating. This is because the self aligning bearings are loose in their mounts and spin in their cage. This is not only noisy, friction robs speed from the fan. The other one is a magnet coming unstuck - the motor won't spin and the armature will burn out if left on too long. Same will happen if water ingress seizes up everything.

There are discussions on the GTV6 side about revamping an AC system with an electric compressor. Thias has become a real option.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Your system looks identical to the one in my GTV (74) and, from the documentation I have, was installed by the selling dealer. It was a Behr system, if I recall corrrectly. The good news is it all operated independently and was simple to remove. What I also found was my glovebox was hacked up and reassembled poorly so I had to find a used one to install back to factory spec. There were also holes in the firewall to contend with that I ultimately plugged using firewall rubber grommets/plugs that I found online. The holes were less than perfectly cut so I had to reshape and resize them a bit. I did not weld them up as I was considering adding an aftermarket unit in the future. One bit to consider, that I learned the hard way, is to pull out, clean, and repair the heater box completely. My car had sat for a bit (20 + years) prior to my rebuild and, while the heater fan was initially working, it died about 3 months after completing the interior. The motors are notoriously weak, I later learned. I then had to pull the heater box out (again) and replace the fan motor, etc. I also replaced the heater core and valve. It all now works really well.
Hi Frank,

This is great advice, I will now pull the heater and rebuild it. What did you do with the driver and passenger side vents? Mine are attached to the AC via ducts.

My glove box is nothing but a door leading to an open void, not sure what if anything I’ll do there. Maybe I’ll put a flux capacitor in there so I can travel back in time and slap whoever installed this thing. I don’t think I can make it to 88 mph yet as three of my brake calipers are completely seized.

My plan with the gaping misshapen hole in the firewall is to cover it with a plate in the event I decide to add something in the future.

Chris
 

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Just to put this post to bed, and for anybody who refers to it in the future, here’s the AC components that were removed and the holes left in the firewall

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Thanks again to everybody who helped with this. As a result, I just shaved off .001 seconds from my 1/4 mile time.
 

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Hi Frank,

This is great advice, I will now pull the heater and rebuild it. What did you do with the driver and passenger side vents? Mine are attached to the AC via ducts.

My glove box is nothing but a door leading to an open void, not sure what if anything I’ll do there. Maybe I’ll put a flux capacitor in there so I can travel back in time and slap whoever installed this thing. I don’t think I can make it to 88 mph yet as three of my brake calipers are completely seized.

My plan with the gaping misshapen hole in the firewall is to cover it with a plate in the event I decide to add something in the future.

Chris
So, as for the passenger side vents I removed the AC ducting and purchased new rubber ducts that go from under the cowl pan directly to the side vents. I removed my dashboard so it was not hard to do but I think it can be done with dashboard in place. Classic Alfa had the parts (part #WA068) -- a pair of them will cost about $100 but the do work very well. My ducts from the heater box to the defroster vents were also hacked on the driver side. I had no luck finding used ones so I improvised with black plastic tubing of the right diameter (a wet dry vac I think). Once I track an original down I will tidy it up but it does work well for now. The flexible connectors to the defroster tubes are also at Classic Alfa.

As for the heater system, I found most of the parts for the heater system at a combination of vendors: I found the core at VickAuto for about $85 to $90 -- best price I could find. I also found the control valve (plastic and metal available) and gasket at Classic Alfa (best pricing I could find). I found the motor unit with impeller at Centerline but, once again, Classic Alfa (now) actually also has the part and the pricing is better.

The glove box will require finding a used one. Check with the Alfa Parts Exchange (APE) Alfa Parts Exchange - Used Alfa Romeo Parts. I do not know if there are any repops available. Scrap the flux capacitor for a twinspark swap --FWIW.

As for the firewall hole, I had the dash out and reshaped it to fit a plug that I found on ebay that was nearly the right size. It was for a domestic muscle car --- I think a dodge charger. However, a metal plate with seam sealer could work. BTW, from the pics the holes appear to be relatively small and a standard rubber plug set may have an exact size. My installer graced me with an oval that accommodated both hoses. Lucky me.

Once again, this is all easier with the dash out. And once your in there do it all if you can. Going back in a second time is no fun at all. Best of luck
 

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So, as for the passenger side vents I removed the AC ducting and purchased new rubber ducts that go from under the cowl pan directly to the side vents. I removed my dashboard so it was not hard to do but I think it can be done with dashboard in place. Classic Alfa had the parts (part #WA068) -- a pair of them will cost about $100 but the do work very well. My ducts from the heater box to the defroster vents were also hacked on the driver side. I had no luck finding used ones so I improvised with black plastic tubing of the right diameter (a wet dry vac I think). Once I track an original down I will tidy it up but it does work well for now. The flexible connectors to the defroster tubes are also at Classic Alfa.

As for the heater system, I found most of the parts for the heater system at a combination of vendors: I found the core at VickAuto for about $85 to $90 -- best price I could find. I also found the control valve (plastic and metal available) and gasket at Classic Alfa (best pricing I could find). I found the motor unit with impeller at Centerline but, once again, Classic Alfa (now) actually also has the part and the pricing is better.

The glove box will require finding a used one. Check with the Alfa Parts Exchange (APE) Alfa Parts Exchange - Used Alfa Romeo Parts. I do not know if there are any repops available. Scrap the flux capacitor for a twinspark swap --FWIW.

As for the firewall hole, I had the dash out and reshaped it to fit a plug that I found on ebay that was nearly the right size. It was for a domestic muscle car --- I think a dodge charger. However, a metal plate with seam sealer could work. BTW, from the pics the holes appear to be relatively small and a standard rubber plug set may have an exact size. My installer graced me with an oval that accommodated both hoses. Lucky me.

Once again, this is all easier with the dash out. And once your in there do it all if you can. Going back in a second time is no fun at all. Best of luck
Interesting saga. My '74 had the factory AC which when I bought the car in 2004, was non functioning. So everything was removed. The heater still works. The only problem remains is with the removal of the control unit there remain a gaping hole and the wood veneer does reach up high enough to cover the space. I suppose a '73/'74 non-AC console would texted upwards and cover that area but those are hard to come by.
 
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