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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings – I’ve been lurking here for some time, soaking up all of the helpful information, particularly the many well documented body restorations. I’ve finally got to the stage on a sill replacement for my 1973 2000 GTV where I have some questions, so I thought I’d post some images.

Bit of a background: I’ve had the car for 18 years, the first 8 or so as my daily driver. When I bought it it was well used (27 owners, including dealers!), although reasonably well maintained and apparently not badly bodged. The floors were a bit rusty so I had those professionally replaced – these were scratch made, and the guy did an excellent job, matching all of the profiles aside from deliberately not putting in the big drain holes that rust so well. At the time he found that the inner sills were good and solid. Over the years I did a variety of typical mechanical jobs (brakes, suspension, head gasket, driveshaft etc) and taught myself to weld enough to do the radiator cross-member, antiroll-bar mounts, around front screen and a few other bits.

A few years ago the car finally failed its WOF (6 monthly safety inspection) due to a rusty door (front corner and near lower hinge). I was busy with life so left it to sit in my garage, starting it up and taking it for a short drive every month or so. Last year I got enthused about getting it legal again, so started with the door which is now finished (an interesting bit of metal bashing and welding, will post photos sometime).

I’m now on to the left sill, which had signs of rust in the front guard when I bought the car, which oddly enough has not improved since then… the other side looks better, but I suspect will be similar.

My daily driver is a 2007 159 Sportwagon 2.4JTDm 6spd Auto, my wife has a 2006 147 1.9JTDm 6spd manual and my son makes good use of my previous 1998 156 TS 5spd manual. So the GTV has some friends at home!

Anyhow, on to the sill saga:

Looked like this before I started (this is the door I fixed):
GTV sill.JPG
Bottom of front guard had been bogged in the past, and it was now ugly...
GTV sill_01.JPG
Cutting my way in - front end of sill had rotted through, filled with muck. Outer sill was solid all of the rest of the way back, but chopped it off anyhow.
GTV sill_03.JPG
Bottom of A pillar solid apart from some rust at bottom flange, but some rot in middle sill at rear of A pillar so off it came. Not obvious here, but bottom flange of inner sill is solid over the full length, as is middle sill, aside from the front end seen here.
GTV sill_09.JPG
Inner sill crusty due to muck getting in through the oval hole:
GTV sill_12.JPG
More photos in next posts before I get to the questions...
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Bottom of kick panel solid, if a bit ugly at the front end, but some rust in middle sill behind it and on inner sill, so off it came:
GTV sill_15.JPG
Back to more-or-less solid metal. Looks a bit ugly, but most of inner sill is just surface, except for one place where it has rusted from the inside. I think there are two reasons why it is only one one local place: this is opposite the oval cutout in the "kick panel" so where most of the muck collected, and it is where the jacking point was welded back on when the floors were replaced, presumably burning off whatever rust protection might have still been there.
GTV sill_23.JPG
To the rear end.. outer guard looked perfect, but a bit of sanding showed a skim of bog and one perforation:
GTV sill_24.JPG
Good that it came off, outer sill rusted at rear.
GTV sill_26.JPG
Sill gone, solid behind it.
GTV sill_27.JPG
Few more photos to come.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So, here's what it looks like now (actually since this image I've finished cleaning up the welds and the remainder of the outer sill).
GTV sill_28.JPG
Box of bits from Classic Alfa (already had front guard patches)
GTV sill_30.JPG
And another box, sills for both sides. Figure RH side will be similar, even though it looks better from the outside.
GTV sill_29.JPG
So, my first question relates to this region, where the inner guard meets with the front of the sills and the front of the floor. I'm happy with what the inner arch should look like, but

- How does the floor come up and meet the flange on the inner guard?

It's possible that my car is not "normal", given that the floors were scratch made.
GTV sill_31.JPG
Same region, with rusty parts cut off (have also cut away rusted region of inner sill which will be patched).
GTV sill_34.JPG

- Has anyone got an image of what this region should look like?

My other questions (at this point.. I'm sure that there will be more :001_unsure:) are:

- What is the best approach to painting and rust proofing the inside of the replacement panels and sills?

My thoughts are to use POR15 on the existing and replacement panels and/or weld-through primer in some regions where there is more welding - any better options?

Should I strip the black paint off the inside of the new sill?

It's tempting to try and rustproof between the inner and mid sills while it is open, but I'm concerned about what may happen when I weld the sill back on. Is it worth trying, or should I wait until it it's all back together? If so, what's the best approach?

What do people recommend for rustproofing - I'm considering Eastwood cavity wax.

Thanks for any hints and suggestions!

Mark.
 

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I struggled with many of these rustproofing questions and the best i have come up with is:

On mating surfaces, brushable weldthru primer. I get a sem product in a can. I have never ever found a spray that does not clog and i have tried many. I find that if i let it dry far longer than the can says, it is a very very tenacious coating.

In cavities on new metal, prime and paint as you would any metal.

On metal with even a bit of rust, por15.

Remember that after these coatings you can and should come back with any cavity wax of your choice and you can also drill access holes as req to apply the product.

I focus on making sure there is no sleeping rust and that I have a strategy to choke off the oxygen of any potential rust.

Far from perfect in practice but its what I got.

And yes, strip the black coatings off all new stampings.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for the link (which is very useful, although hasn't got very detailed photos of the corner I'm looking at) and the comments on paint. More to the point, the photos I have seen vary significantly, so I'm not sure what is "normal", not that it really matters. From looking at replacement floor images it looks like the front flange of the floor comes out to meet the sides, which makes sense.

I've been using spray on weld-through primer, which as you say, tends to block. I'll have a look at paintable versions.

There is an existing hole (with a rubber bung) in the rear inner arch which provides access to between the inner and middle sills for rustproofing, where is the best place to drill holes to get between the middle and outer sills? Maybe under kick plate along door?

POR15 is amazing stuff, particularly how well it stays on skin :001_unsure:
 

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My car had a 3/4 inch round opening at the front of each inner rear fender well. The hole accesses the inner sill all the way to the front fender well. It looks to be factory. I made a paint fogger by drilling out a barbed pipe fitting and attached it to a long section of brake tubing. I added a siphon to it to pull up some POR 15. It was then placed the length of the sill into the hole a fired up off my compressor and slowly drawn back to coat the inside. The POR ran out of every opening so it looks to have coated well. This was all done after sill replacement and prior to any body work. Yeah, as said before, don't let it get on your skin. No manner of solvent or otherwise will touch it. Can only be removed by growing new skin. (Should have taken pictures of that!) the work you have done looks great. Relatively low level of rust. Nice.
 

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In the thread linked to already I can see photos of 2 cars (one mine) showing how the front of the floor meets the bulkhead. Both same :).
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #9
In the thread linked to already I can see photos of 2 cars (one mine) showing how the front of the floor meets the bulkhead. Both same :).
Pete
Thanks Pete, yes you are right, it's just that they both seem to be different at the front outer corner of the floor (see below), and various images of replacement floors I've looked at so far aren't very clear in this area either.

I'm clear about the inner wheel arch with its flange with a tapered end, it's just what happens where the floor's flange across the front (under that of the inner wheel arch) reaches the the inner sill. Does the flange across the front of the floor wrap around the corner to meet the flange against the inner sill, or are they separate? Trivial really, just as long as it's sealed somehow!

Alfa0002_after_A_piller edited.jpg

DSC01918_4 edited.jpg

Also, looks like the tab that comes out from the front end of the inner sill should run the full height of the inner sill? Mine has rusted at the bottom and a bit at the top.

GTV sill_34 edited.jpg

Cheers,

Mark.
 

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Mark,

My car is the first photo you have shown. Now I made my own inner chassis rail members so the return on the end might be right or might be wrong length wise, but with the floor panels I got them from another car that was wrecked. Yes I had to do some rust repairs but otherwise I just installed them in my car, so I think that area you circled would be right.

Interesting that it is different to the next photo but maybe somebody, or even Alfa, tidied up that area by trimming the floor panel return ... ?
Does the flange across the front of the floor wrap around the corner to meet the flange against the inner sill, or are they separate?
Separate. The flange on the inner sill (chassis rail) is for the A pillar area panel to spot weld too.
Pete
 
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