1970 Gt Junior
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Clean car! Something like that shouldn't have too much trouble selling. Try eBay as well.
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2,623 Posts
opinions...
I can see some very positive features on this car: like the front jacking tubes, or the rocker panels that follow the curvature of the door, or the uncracked dash. It seems to have been gone over correctly. Deserves better than a "driver" status. Not concours, it has a few non-original details but nothing outrageous.
Its market value depends on where you are. In the US, the GT Jr is a pretty much unknown quantity. This car is technically very close to the Giulia Sprint GT, one of the most sought-after variations on the GTV theme. How much is an excellent GTV worth these days in the US? Between $15-$20K? In Europe they are double that.
Restoring a GT costs the same, whether 1300 or 2000. And if I GIVE you a so-so GT to start with, it will cost more than $20K.
Trouble is, this car is in Canada. With all the red tape involved, it is doubtful it would bring a decent offer from the US.
But I wouldn't mind this car in my garage at all. 1300's are fun in today's traffic. Rev the engine, shift a lot, this is what an Alfa is made for. Without getting in trouble with the law... too much.
I'm not following. A little on the high side, maybe, but certainly not ridiculous.
I can see some very positive features on this car: like the front jacking tubes, or the rocker panels that follow the curvature of the door, or the uncracked dash. It seems to have been gone over correctly. Deserves better than a "driver" status. Not concours, it has a few non-original details but nothing outrageous.
Its market value depends on where you are. In the US, the GT Jr is a pretty much unknown quantity. This car is technically very close to the Giulia Sprint GT, one of the most sought-after variations on the GTV theme. How much is an excellent GTV worth these days in the US? Between $15-$20K? In Europe they are double that.
Restoring a GT costs the same, whether 1300 or 2000. And if I GIVE you a so-so GT to start with, it will cost more than $20K.
Trouble is, this car is in Canada. With all the red tape involved, it is doubtful it would bring a decent offer from the US.
But I wouldn't mind this car in my garage at all. 1300's are fun in today's traffic. Rev the engine, shift a lot, this is what an Alfa is made for. Without getting in trouble with the law... too much.
Agreed, the car has many good features, but you bring up an excellent point about market vales being very geographic in nature. With today's US-CAN exchange rate being on par selling a Canadian car to the US is not very attractive - espcially with all of the "red tape" involved. I do not, however, agree with your point regarding the GT junior's restoration cost in realtion to it's market value. There will always be a greater demand (and higher price premium) for the GTV because it is what it is - a higher performance version of the same car. The fact that the costs of restoration may be close has little to do with the primary market value drivers. Ultimately it's the owner's decision on which car he decides do restore (and likewise his responsibility for the financial consequences). I don't know much about the Canadian market, but if excellent GTVs are around $15-20K in the US I'd say this car will bring $15K.
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2,578 Posts
Just curious, is there really that much red tape involved? Bringing a US registered car of this vintage into Canada is a very simple process. Other than faxing the ownership papers to the US border crossing post more than 72 hours in advance, the whole process took less than an hour and involved filling in a couple of forms. Newer vehicles are much more complicated to import.
I'm fairly new to Alfas but wouldn't the fact that the GT Junior is more rare than the GTV in the U.S. (and possibly even Canada) add $$ to the value of the GT?
Also - in another area of the forum (the classifieds I think) the seller does state that this selling price is pretty much the appraisal value; not sure why he would aim for less than it's worth...
I've been collecting classics (both buying and selling) for a long time now and I've learned one crucially important thing - the value of a classic car is the amount someone will write the check for. Commenting on the rarity of the junior I'd say price is driven by supply and demand - not only supply. Although the junior may be more rare in North America due to the fact they were not officially imported to the US (ref: Keith Martin on Collecting Alfa Romeo pg. 62). The reality of the situation is from 1965-1977 Alfa made about 80,000 juniors and about 80,000 GTVs, so the junior is not really more rare at all. An appraisal doesn't mean much. To me it's just someone's estimate of the value - a guideline at best. Also if I were to going to purchase this car I'd want to see and read the appraisal. Like I said a car is worth as much as someone is willing to pay and I'd pay no more than $15K for a nice little junior like this.
I wish the seller best of luck!
I wish the seller best of luck!
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2,406 Posts
This is a great looking Junior, and I wish the owner luck with the sale. As we all have heard many times before, this car is worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it. Is $22,500 steep? Not really I think - I agree with Yves - Its going to cost a lot more to restore it yourself. However, for the asking of $22,500 this Junior should be original in every detail. Don't mean to pick at things, but having been around Alfa for a while now, I can tell you that I have never seen a Junior with round side markers - always seen rectangular. Wheels and hub caps - correct steel rims but wrong caps. The engine - is it really a 1300 or a 1750 swap? Judging by its cam cover raised detail? Regardless, I can see the owner has spent much money on this restoration, but buyers should be aware of the details when spending this type of coin. Just some advise from one BBer to another.
I totally agree. That's exactly my point - for this kind of money this car needs to be perfect and pristine in every respect. I've paid for cars at the high end of the market before. Regardless to say the car had to be pristine, but I also made sure I was getting extremely complete documentation, receipts etc. As GTA_ALFA mentioned this one doesn't seem to be original in every detail. I echo the sentiment - just a bit of advice to anyone spending this amount of money.
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2,406 Posts
In respect to the owner and the Alfa, it wouldn't be fair to tag a price on a car I haven't seen before.
Fair enough. I was just wondering your thoughts as I am a bit new to Alfa Romeo and have recently been looking around casually for a GT. I think I have a good idea of the value of the GTVs and I'm confident in my assessment of a good looking (but not perfect) junior like this in that it would get around 14-16K with the right buyer. Was just curious of your thoughts on the subject of the junior.
Cheers!
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2,578 Posts
My 2 cents from only looking at the pictures is that this car may not be perfect but that seems to be more about whether it is "correct". From what we are seeing, if it was a 1600, 1750 or 2000 that looked like that the value would be over $20,000. The question to me is whether the Junior is worth more because they are more rare in NA or worth less because of the smaller engine.
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Comment to Anthony:
The side marker lights are correct for a euro version.
Other comments:
It is easy to import a car from the US, but even at "par" it still costs you a 2.5% premium to convert to USD. (Best approach is to buy USD AMEX trav chq's).
You have to consider the cost to get down to the car and the cost to drive/trailer it back.
At some border crossings, Canada Customs has inposed an import tax on non NA cars of 6.1%. People have indicated this on the TO BB discussions, I and others have not had this levied on us.
Another thing is that buying a car in Ontario privately, you only pay the PST. When importing you pay both GST and PST.
When all is said and done, if this was a "correct" car it would demand a premium, because it has "collector value". If so the new "asking" price would not be far off in my mind. But for a "nice" GTV for driving and enjoying I would suggest price is somewhat high especially if it is in fact a 1300 (which by the way are the most common in europe)
To end my rant, on eBay I doubt that this car would be sought after agressively by Americans. They have an avversion to buy anything from up here.
my 2 lira's worth....ing Elio Comello
"Donne e Motori, Gioie e Dolori"
The side marker lights are correct for a euro version.
Other comments:
It is easy to import a car from the US, but even at "par" it still costs you a 2.5% premium to convert to USD. (Best approach is to buy USD AMEX trav chq's).
You have to consider the cost to get down to the car and the cost to drive/trailer it back.
At some border crossings, Canada Customs has inposed an import tax on non NA cars of 6.1%. People have indicated this on the TO BB discussions, I and others have not had this levied on us.
Another thing is that buying a car in Ontario privately, you only pay the PST. When importing you pay both GST and PST.
When all is said and done, if this was a "correct" car it would demand a premium, because it has "collector value". If so the new "asking" price would not be far off in my mind. But for a "nice" GTV for driving and enjoying I would suggest price is somewhat high especially if it is in fact a 1300 (which by the way are the most common in europe)
To end my rant, on eBay I doubt that this car would be sought after agressively by Americans. They have an avversion to buy anything from up here.
my 2 lira's worth....ing Elio Comello
"Donne e Motori, Gioie e Dolori"
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