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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As I progress with the restoration of my car, I'm trying to connect the dots of ownership. Here's what I know, hopefully someone on these boards may be able to filling something in.

The car is titled as a 1962 Giulietta Spider Normale. It is a 10103, VIN number AR 170257. The engine number is AR 00102*24892 which is correct for the production dates and such. I contacted the Alfa Museo and found the car was delivered to Max Hoffman in NY on 7/20/1961. The car is Rosso (AR 521) red, the Museo tells me that the original interior color was either black or beige. The top would have been black. The speedo registers 47,693, the title states it has exceeded the mechanical limits. The interior is shot, I've never heard the engine run, but the body is in pretty good shape. No way has the speedo rolled over. I'd estimate the car has no more than 75k miles based on the pedal wear and body condition.

The car has been located near Hamilton Ohio for at least 30 years. I (Tim VonDerHaar) purchased the car from my father (Tom VonDerHaar) on 6/6/2003. My father purchased the car on 5/1/1990. My family has live in Hamilton Ohio for 60+ years. I found a receipt from the BMV for the title transfer, but nothing about the previous owner's name. My father had passed before I had the time to restore the car and didn't thing to ask him so I have no idea of the name of the man he purchased the car from.

Now go hug your loved ones now before you forget!!

My older brother has a memory that the prior owner lived on SR 747 near route 4 in Liberty Township OH. Apparently the house is no longer standing, it is now just a vacant lot. I have contacted the Ohio BMV to ask for a title search. Their response was they have no data prior to 6/6/2003. Not sure if I just connected with the wrong person or if that is indeed fact.

Interesting things about the car. Someone had fabricated a hard top for the car. Pretty well done actually. Someone had also replaced the factory interior from either black or beige to white, including the door panels and changed the top from black to white. The white interior and top are shot so the changes may have been done when the car was relatively new. The underside of the car is caked with very fine dirt so it may have lived off of a dirt road at some point or was auto-crossed off road. The gas tank has a dent in the bottom so it has definitely seen some hard driving. I do remember my father saying that the prior owner when through the bottom of the engine, but I cannot validate that. I haven't dug into the engine rebuild yet so I no data there. The passenger front fender has a pretty nice dent on the top of the fender. I didn't see how big or deep before my father put filler over it. If the engine rebuild is true, maybe it hit the fender coming out or going back in. Just speculation of course. The suspension was very well attended too. Any greasable joint was well lubricated, including the rear differential ball joint. Although incredibly dirty, none of the suspension parts show any real wear.

Thank you for the read, I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Great stuff Tim, welcome to the BB !!

Please post some pictures - we like pictures :D

Ciao
Greig
Thank you Creig. I added a few photos of recent progress. I don't think I have anything before the paint was stripped 25 years ago!
 

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Excellent basis for restoration Tim !! out of interest your Chassis number dates as a late-ish '61, probably titled in '62

We're here to help you through your resto and get it back on the road

Ciao
Greig
 

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Tim,
Again, your Spider is pretty close to mine chassis number-wise, mine being just 5 months newer. I can see they have very similar parts. I do have a few anomalies more like a '62, though.

BTW, you can find more info through the Columbus DMV archives on its history. I've done it. You have to get to the right "history-loving" person there. Also, if you take your official Alfa information paperwork from Italy, and the Fusi book or any other quality Alfa history book with the chassis & engine numbers (to try to prove yours is actually a 1961) to your local Ohio State Patrol salvage inspection station, their inspectors will look over your information, search your firewall chassis ID number and may give you a corrected, OSP officially signed form to get your title adjusted correctly. The Ohio "year of manufacture plates" require the correct information anyway, so it makes for a good argument to get it right.

If your windshield is still in nice shape, keep it together as one unit if possible. I wish my previous owner had. If nothing else for rubber seal size referencing later. That really helps to get the new seals cut correctly. I'm struggling with it right now...slowly!

Find a good panel beater for that fender. It will be worth it. A good local Dent Wizard veteran would probably love a go at it, not having to open a door panel for a change.

Also, tell me the pins didn't get taken out of your engine hood hinges...not a good thing if keeping the originals for new chrome. The nuts & washers for those are sort-of-easily accessed under the dash. To replace those pins is a serious endeavor, front and rear. As someone here said to me, whomever took my pins out (my previous chromer) should be seriously slapped silly. Since my hinges are cast (pot) metal the new pins needed to be steel or brass to chrome plate properly with the pins and hinges together as a unit. Stainless pins will not hold up on both. Ask me how I know...

Out of curiosity, is your Giulietta data plate on your firewall attached by tiny cheesehead standard flat screws, or rivets, seeing that it was built in July '61?

Another tip I can pass along for your true '61 is to measure everything from bushing sizes to bolt sizes, to rubber pieces, to cables, as you take your car apart before you order anything from parts vendors. You can't go by 101 designations on every vendor's web site for your Spider on certain parts. I had to re-order bushings for my trailing arms for instance. Mine were smaller than most 101s. They were only listed for 750s on the site I bought them from, defying the norm. It seems to have been common for Alfa workers to pull older parts off the shelf to use them up back then. Not sure if that just happened to Normales or all Giuliettas. Searching that kind of info here has been invaluable to me.

Really a great car, Tim. Looks like we both got lucky with well-stored, always-in-Ohio Spiders. Keep us updated.
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Tim,
Again, your Spider is pretty close to mine chassis number-wise, mine being just 5 months newer. I can see they have very similar parts. I do have a few anomalies more like a '62, though.

BTW, you can find more info through the Columbus DMV archives on its history. I've done it. You have to get to the right "history-loving" person there. Also, if you take your official Alfa information paperwork from Italy, and the Fusi book or any other quality Alfa history book with the chassis & engine numbers (to try to prove yours is actually a 1961) to your local Ohio State Patrol salvage inspection station, their inspectors will look over your information, search your firewall chassis ID number and may give you a corrected, OSP officially signed form to get your title adjusted correctly. The Ohio "year of manufacture plates" require the correct information anyway, so it makes for a good argument to get it right.

If your windshield is still in nice shape, keep it together as one unit if possible. I wish my previous owner had. If nothing else for rubber seal size referencing later. That really helps to get the new seals cut correctly. I'm struggling with it right now...slowly!

Find a good panel beater for that fender. It will be worth it. A good local Dent Wizard veteran would probably love a go at it, not having to open a door panel for a change.

Also, tell me the pins didn't get taken out of your engine hood hinges...not a good thing if keeping the originals for new chrome. The nuts & washers for those are sort-of-easily accessed under the dash. To replace those pins is a serious endeavor, front and rear. As someone here said to me, whomever took my pins out (my previous chromer) should be seriously slapped silly. Since my hinges are cast (pot) metal the new pins needed to be steel or brass to chrome plate properly with the pins and hinges together as a unit. Stainless pins will not hold up on both. Ask me how I know...

Out of curiosity, is your Giulietta data plate on your firewall attached by tiny cheesehead standard flat screws, or rivets, seeing that it was built in July '61?

Another tip I can pass along for your true '61 is to measure everything from bushing sizes to bolt sizes, to rubber pieces, to cables, as you take your car apart before you order anything from parts vendors. You can't go by 101 designations on every vendor's web site for your Spider on certain parts. I had to re-order bushings for my trailing arms for instance. Mine were smaller than most 101s. They were only listed for 750s on the site I bought them from, defying the norm. It seems to have been common for Alfa workers to pull older parts off the shelf to use them up back then. Not sure if that just happened to Normales or all Giuliettas. Searching that kind of info here has been invaluable to me.

Really a great car, Tim. Looks like we both got lucky with well-stored, always-in-Ohio Spiders. Keep us updated.
Dave
Thank you for the info Dave. I'll take your advice for the front fender. I'm competent with basic sheet metal work, getting raw metal perfect is not my strength. I will also keep pursuing the BMV. I emailed the Columbus office, I will try calling this time.

Oh the hinges. My father took all of the trim off himself. Patience was not his style, so the hood hinges are a mess. They are broken as well (see pic below). I found the parts in a small brown bag...hence the saying "bag of s#$t". Dad found either re-chromed or very lightly used rear hinges so hopefully I'm good there (see pic below). I will need to verify if the ones he picked up are actually correct for the car.

My data plate is riveted in place (see pic below).

I have noticed the discrepancy with parts listed as 101 not being exactly true for me. The bushings you speak of are the first place I've noticed. I've actually begun using a notebook and write down observations as I pull parts off. Pictures are great, but noting beats a few notes here are there.

Given yours is further along than mine, I'd love to drive up someday and see yours in person.

Tim
 

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Tim,
Do you know if your car was a Hoffman Spider? Interesting about the rivets on your data plate. Mine came in a baggie with tiny cheesehead screws, and the holes for them looked like they had been used with screws on my firewall. I thought rivets were correct from research here.

Your new rear hinges look good. Mine are still at the new platers’ shop. I’d like to get my trunk lid on to work on the lock.

I’ve got a long way to go, but it’s progressing. Thanks for sharing your pictures. Lots of expert help here from many Giulietta veterans.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, my car came through Hoffman. At least the Alfa museum told me it was delivered to NY so not sure if there were any other ways for Alfas to come into NY without it being Hoffman.

To add to the mystery, the plate on my drivers door is not riveted. Ar these the screws you are referring too?
 

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Yes, looks like the same screws. Mine came with them on both tags. At least in the bags I got them in from the previous owner who had dismantled it.

My certificate from Alfa has “Max Hoffman” on it as the purchaser. I think they all came in to NY regardless, but I’m not sure they all passed through his business. Service members and anyone else ordering them may have shipped them back as well through that port. If yours was titled a ‘62 but built in July, that’s a long time before the New Year, though I’m sure some sat on lots unsold. Does your paperwork state when it was delivered?
 
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