[millstoneman]

I own a lovely 1960 Giulietta Berlina. The car is a joy to drive along with the four-speed column shift transmission. It's great on the back roads but very limited on highways, as trying to keep up with traffic over taxes the engine with uncomfortably high rpms. Currently the car is capable of around 55 mph range @ 4000 rpms. I was told some years ago you could add a fifth gear to this split case, 101 transmission. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Reverse on the column shift is down and back, and there is a blank in the shift sequence, down and forward. It certainly would help when traveling down freeways on occasion. I know I could accomplish lowering the rpms a tad working on the final drive in the rear diff. I'm just weighing my options, and because the tranny needs new synchros, I thought while it's out why not add this fifth gear if possible. Thanks

 

[AlfistiSA]

Well basically YES it can be done, but will depend on two things, firstly you need another pair of shafts as the current 4 speed lay shaft is only long enough to carry the 4 gears to match those 4 gears on the main shaft, the 5th gear actually sits outside the casing itself & is thus in the end housing, usually the turret, but in your case with a column shift it's the end housing. A matched pair of shafts will prevent the singing that happens in gears with mis-matched shafts.

Secondly the end housing needs to have a bearing to carry the end of the longer layshaft - often this section is usually not machined in the 4 speed end housing / turret. It's a blind hole which needs to be absolutely accurately machined to take the roller bearing on the end of the longer layshaft

Another option is to look for a column shift from a later '62 to '65 Giulia 105 Ti which was a 5 speed column shift - the larger support bush under the turret can be dealt with by spacing the gearbox cradle downwards. Alternately finding the cradle from a 101 Giulia 1600, but they are scarce. The Giulia Ti column shift box will be a straight bolt-in and give you the 5th gear you are looking for. Check Ebay.it and I will follow up with a friend in Yurrup who has a '62 Giulia 105 Ti

I'm not going to promise that the shifter mechanisms are a direct match-up, but the '62 to '65 Giulia Ti was very much a continuation development of the 101 split case column shift, both actuate via rod linkages through the bell housing.

Ciao
Greig

 

[millstoneman]

Wow, It sounds pretty complicated. Greig, let me know if anything develops when you speak to your friend. Many thanks! Jonathan

 

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Jon

Check your email

Thanx
Greig

 

[alphil]

Well basically YES it can be done, but will depend on two things, firstly you need another pair of shafts as the current 4 speed lay shaft is only long enough to carry the 4 gears to match those 4 gears on the main shaft, the 5th gear actually sits outside the casing itself & is thus in the end housing, usually the turret, but in your case with a column shift it's the end housing. A matched pair of shafts will prevent the singing that happens in gears with mis-matched shafts.

Secondly the end housing needs to have a bearing to carry the end of the longer layshaft - often this section is usually not machined in the 4 speed end housing / turret. It's a blind hole which needs to be absolutely accurately machined to take the roller bearing on the end of the longer layshaft

Another option is to look for a column shift from a later '62 to '65 Giulia 105 Ti which was a 5 speed column shift - the larger support bush under the turret can be dealt with by spacing the gearbox cradle downwards. Alternately finding the cradle from a 101 Giulia 1600, but they are scarce. The Giulia Ti column shift box will be a straight bolt-in and give you the 5th gear you are looking for. Check Ebay.it and I will follow up with a friend in Yurrup who has a '62 Giulia 105 Ti

I'm not going to promise that the shifter mechanisms are a direct match-up, but the '62 to '65 Giulia Ti was very much a continuation development of the 101 split case column shift, both actuate via rod linkages through the bell housing.

Ciao
Greig

Excellent advice from Greig, much easier to find a compatable 5-speed. Greig, ****, I wish I would have known about using the matching 5- speed shafts to eliminate gear "whine" when converting a 4-speed to a 5-speed. Please give me some hope and tell me this may not be true in all cases. I just had a 4-speed converted to a 5-speed, but used the 4-speed input shaft and output shaft. I did use the matching layshaft and mainshaft 3/4th gears from the 4-speed, and the matching layshaft and mainshaft 1/2/5th gears from the 5-speed. I followed the Alfa Competition Advisory Service(CAS) bulletin for making this conversion, which didn't mention using the 5-speed mainshafts, but I suppose that in racecars, gear whine is of little importance? I think that simply put, all of the internal parts from a 5-speed can be put into a 4-speed case, as long as the 4-speed rear case has been machined for the rear layshaft bearing. Also,when/if using a 4-speed rear case, the 4-speed speedometer assembly and matching spiral gear must be used. Ask me how I know? Last thing, don't forget to consider doing the 1st gear fix. Nuff said, FWIW,here's some info. The best,Phil

 

[millstoneman]

Thank you Phil, and for the attachments! I think finding a 5-speed tranny is the lesser of the two evils! I just don't know if the new 5 speed will be compatible with the 4-speed shift linkage. Again, thank you! Jon

 

[alphil]

Thank you Phil, and for the attachments! I think finding a 5-speed tranny is the lesser of the two evils! I just don't know if the new 5 speed will be compatible with the 4-speed shift linkage. Again, thank you! Jon

agree 100% and understand about the linkage issue. Just my guess, but from what you said about your linkage, wouldn't surprise me if it works. Stick with Greig, can't beat experience

 

[alphil]

agree 100% and understand about the linkage issue. Just my guess, but from what you said about your linkage, wouldn't surprise me if it works. Stick with Greig, can't beat experience

 

[millstoneman]

Hey Greig, Can you confirm if the 4 speed linkage is compatible with the 105 TI 5 speed tranny? Thanks!

 

[AlfistiSA]

Hey Greig, Can you confirm if the 4 speed linkage is compatible with the 105 TI 5 speed tranny? Thanks!

Ummm no I can't - the SA built Ti's are RHD floor shift & my column shift 750 Sprint is a tunnel case which is completely different. I've never actually had a 101 column shift in my hands, we didn't really get them here, even my old '63 Ti 105 was a RHD floor shift

BUT, the 101 column shift operates via rod linkages through the bell housing, which is exactly how the 105 column shift works. Knowing Alfa and how they commonised stuff from the late 101's through to the early 105's, chances are it was the same linkage set-up

This is a 101 column shift from a '60 Berlina showing the aluminium actuation mounting, I'm after a pic of a 105 Ti to see if the mechanism is the same

Ciao
Greig

 

[vsharp]

Logically, if the 5th speed uses the same axis selector shaft as reverse does, then the mechanism already works side to side in that direction.
It also must work on the 1st/3rd (5th) of the for/aft center line, for the other two anyway, so chances are it will shift the 5th.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

To add a bit more, YEARS ago, Alfa offered a "conversion-kit" to convert 101-1300 Veloce spider transmissions to 5 speeds. I'm old enough to have bought one and installed it in a 1960 1300 Spider Veloce. There was a bit of machine work required to fit the bearing into the tail housing. I just used a 5 speed tail housing.
Today there are some good, older 5 speed 101 transmissions out there that would be easier to rebuild that to make a 'conversion".

 

[AlfistiSA]

Talk about timing, this surfaced for sale yesterday in Sweden.... 5 speed Ti gearbox from a '62-'65 Giulia Ti. Unrestored, but has been kept with oil in it & selects all 5 gears.

How does this compare to the 101 selector mechanism

 

[Gordon Raymond]

AMAZING Greig!

 

[AlfistiSA]

Logically, if the 5th speed uses the same axis selector shaft as reverse does, then the mechanism already works side to side in that direction.
It also must work on the 1st/3rd (5th) of the for/aft center line, for the other two anyway, so chances are it will shift the 5th.

My feeling exactly Vince

 

[Alfa Station]

Ummm no I can't - the SA built Ti's are RHD floor shift & my column shift 750 Sprint is a tunnel case which is completely different. I've never actually had a 101 column shift in my hands, we didn't really get them here, even my old '63 Ti 105 was a RHD floor shift

BUT, the 101 column shift operates via rod linkages through the bell housing, which is exactly how the 105 column shift works. Knowing Alfa and how they commonised stuff from the late 101's through to the early 105's, chances are it was the same linkage set-up

This is a 101 column shift from a '60 Berlina showing the aluminium actuation mounting, I'm after a pic of a 105 Ti to see if the mechanism is the same

Ciao
Greig

Quite different set up on 105