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1958 Alfa Giulietta as found/uncovered today
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last pict
last pict shows it as we left it
with new covering over entire vehicle
with rain/water being able to run off with no further entry into or onto auto
last pict shows it as we left it
with new covering over entire vehicle
with rain/water being able to run off with no further entry into or onto auto
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1,288 Posts
You had asked how much it is worth? In my opinion, this is a tough one. The cost to repair the rust will/would be significant. For a normale (that this is), it is hard to say whether it would be "worth it", as far as $, to repair. The parts on it, and the tool kit, are VERY nice! I personally think that the best idea for this car would be to find another much less rusted car and transplant the parts.
Please don't get me wrong, I think every Giulietta should be saved, but finding someone with the time and money for this may be hard. If a person does restore it, they will definitely be upside down when they are done, and most likely for many years to come.
The tool kit, steering wheel, gages, seats, soft top, and many other parts that stayed away from the rust are worth some real money.
I would say it is worth $6-7K as it sits.
Just my opinion.
Scott
Please don't get me wrong, I think every Giulietta should be saved, but finding someone with the time and money for this may be hard. If a person does restore it, they will definitely be upside down when they are done, and most likely for many years to come.
The tool kit, steering wheel, gages, seats, soft top, and many other parts that stayed away from the rust are worth some real money.
I would say it is worth $6-7K as it sits.
Just my opinion.
Scott
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13 Posts
Well....
anyone interested in making an offer?
I just left her home and she knows the day is here and that her beloved alfa must find a new owner...
She actually just found the title.... I have a photo of that too!
She bought it new from Jaguar Cleveland... $3480.00 in 1958
She ordered from dealer and they shipped it over for her
I need to help this nice lady find a buyer who can make a sincere offer so that she can get her garage roof sorted, and obviously the garage roof is being paid for via the sale of the car,
Kind regards
Fraser
anyone interested in making an offer?
I just left her home and she knows the day is here and that her beloved alfa must find a new owner...
She actually just found the title.... I have a photo of that too!
She bought it new from Jaguar Cleveland... $3480.00 in 1958
She ordered from dealer and they shipped it over for her
I need to help this nice lady find a buyer who can make a sincere offer so that she can get her garage roof sorted, and obviously the garage roof is being paid for via the sale of the car,
Kind regards
Fraser
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277 Posts
sorry if I missed this, where is the car? Ohio?
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Car is located in ......
sunny Cleveland, Ohio!
sunny Cleveland, Ohio!
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1,058 Posts
PM Sent. Check your inbox
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3,278 Posts
With auction prices in the 60Ks for a very nice Normale, I'm not so sure that the restorer would be under-water... what'll it take to bring this car back correctly? Body+paint: $20K, mechanicals: $15K, interior and other items: $5K = $40K; it could make financial sense. If one waits another three years or so before embarking on the restoration, the market price might have further risen.
I think that we'll need a few more auctions to truly establish these prices, though.
I think that we'll need a few more auctions to truly establish these prices, though.
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399 Posts
This car is well rusted through. Take a look at the floors through the rust holes in the rockers. The only thing this car has going for it is that it's an Alfa Romeo and it's complete. Best thing to do is part it out. Resto on this car easily $40-50K. Don't think you'll get as much out of this car as you put into it. Veloce, different story. Sorry, my price $2-3K ($40K+ for body/chrome, $8K sheet metal from Biondi, $8K engine rebuild, $6K interior).
Now I am not sure I am really qualified to comment or not but I will give it a go anyway. Just recently a perfect condition giulietta (not sure if a veloce or normale) recently sold in Melbourne for around $90K which given the Aussie is now above the USD I assume that would equate to towards $100K. Given that, and that they aren't making them any more I would have thought this car is eminently restorable.
Also, given that there are plenty of excellent home restorers out there on the BB, the costs would be hugely different from say sending it off to professionals to do. You only have to look at the sort of work that Rossano, Daveydog, PSK etc have done on their GTVs.
My Super was about as rusty as this one and it cost me approx $3K to have the rust repaired. I have been quoted around $8-10k for a perfect paint job. So I suspect the bodywork repair prices are now where as high as suggested. Ditto I had the interior restored (in first grade connolly leather new wood trims, door trims, dash and parcel shelf etc etc) and by professionals and the total cost in AUD, was approx $3-3 1/2K and there is more interior on a Super than a Giulietta. So, allowing for some professional input on this car, I would suggest a figure of around $20-30K should be easily sufficient to bring it back to life.
Based on such assumptions and given it is complete albeit in a sad condition, I think the original suggested price of say between $5-10K is pretty reasonable.
As to an $8k engine rebuild what the heck are you proposing to do it? A standard Alfa engine rebuild shouldn't cost anymore than 1/2 of that. I know as am intending starting on rebuilding my 1600 engine soon and that will include some minor enhancements.
Good luck to the seller and I hope this one can be brought back to life.
Also, given that there are plenty of excellent home restorers out there on the BB, the costs would be hugely different from say sending it off to professionals to do. You only have to look at the sort of work that Rossano, Daveydog, PSK etc have done on their GTVs.
My Super was about as rusty as this one and it cost me approx $3K to have the rust repaired. I have been quoted around $8-10k for a perfect paint job. So I suspect the bodywork repair prices are now where as high as suggested. Ditto I had the interior restored (in first grade connolly leather new wood trims, door trims, dash and parcel shelf etc etc) and by professionals and the total cost in AUD, was approx $3-3 1/2K and there is more interior on a Super than a Giulietta. So, allowing for some professional input on this car, I would suggest a figure of around $20-30K should be easily sufficient to bring it back to life.
Based on such assumptions and given it is complete albeit in a sad condition, I think the original suggested price of say between $5-10K is pretty reasonable.
As to an $8k engine rebuild what the heck are you proposing to do it? A standard Alfa engine rebuild shouldn't cost anymore than 1/2 of that. I know as am intending starting on rebuilding my 1600 engine soon and that will include some minor enhancements.
Good luck to the seller and I hope this one can be brought back to life.
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156 Posts
Don't part it
It's a great example of a pretty early Spider, and probably almost all of us are drooling over at least the tool kit.
Actually much of the rust seems superficial--from the outside in--which is not serious, but the sills and floorboards present a bigger problem than, say, the headlight buckets, because they are of complicated cross-section and structurally essential to the car. If a competent body craftsman could be found to rebuild the sills, or suitable replacement sections could be found, it would be reasonable to rebuild, since all the hard-to-find little bits (like chrome, switches, knobs, etc.) and the soft stuff seem to be still on the car and in pretty good shape. Maybe, $15K for the body work? Finally, it would be a pity to break up a real original and spread it over the globe.
One last point: be very careful when moving it. There isn't much left of the sills and floors, which hold the front and back parts of the body together, and you wouldn't want it to fold up.
Jeffrey
Jeffrey
It's a great example of a pretty early Spider, and probably almost all of us are drooling over at least the tool kit.
Actually much of the rust seems superficial--from the outside in--which is not serious, but the sills and floorboards present a bigger problem than, say, the headlight buckets, because they are of complicated cross-section and structurally essential to the car. If a competent body craftsman could be found to rebuild the sills, or suitable replacement sections could be found, it would be reasonable to rebuild, since all the hard-to-find little bits (like chrome, switches, knobs, etc.) and the soft stuff seem to be still on the car and in pretty good shape. Maybe, $15K for the body work? Finally, it would be a pity to break up a real original and spread it over the globe.
One last point: be very careful when moving it. There isn't much left of the sills and floors, which hold the front and back parts of the body together, and you wouldn't want it to fold up.
Jeffrey
Jeffrey
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10,285 Posts
Team Fraser, you sound like a reasonable guy who has no interest in Alfas or cars for that matter looking to help your neighbor. The talk of restoring or not is noble but immaterial and not your concern. An argument can be made that anything made by man is restorable starting with sunken Viking ships. It's not mundane to the question of value. You just want to get some knowledge that if you sell it at "X" to someone in the know that you haven't left 10 times "X" on the table, right?
The car is worth about $4000 minimum in raw parts--- Seats (if they aren't rotted away), steering wheel, engine, tranny, trim, glass.. etc. It's possible to squeeze out somemore with some heavy duty dismantling of every nut and bolt like brake parts, steering box, doors, lids, suspension..light assemblies, gauges. Do you want to do that? I doubt it. You should be able to sleep at night if you take $3500 cash for it knowing the "picker" who bought it is going to squeeze out something more in the end and it makes everybody happy-- you, your neighbor, and the buyer.
The car is worth about $4000 minimum in raw parts--- Seats (if they aren't rotted away), steering wheel, engine, tranny, trim, glass.. etc. It's possible to squeeze out somemore with some heavy duty dismantling of every nut and bolt like brake parts, steering box, doors, lids, suspension..light assemblies, gauges. Do you want to do that? I doubt it. You should be able to sleep at night if you take $3500 cash for it knowing the "picker" who bought it is going to squeeze out something more in the end and it makes everybody happy-- you, your neighbor, and the buyer.
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399 Posts
These are my thoughts exactly. For $3500 I would keep this hot little number and have her restored. I'm in the process of having my '58 Veloce restored with heavy rust, much like this car and believe me, I know what it costs!!!
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Having seen some of his projects and sold him some parts that I thought were beyond restoration, I can testify that Lionel is a real buyer with what seems to be a fair offer. I'm just amazed that anyone would tackle this as a restoration. I've done a couple of amatuer restos but I'm too much of a wimp for this one!
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Obviously if someone can do the work themselves, the amount of money it would cost to restore this would be much less (not counting sweat equity).
I would say the cost of an engine rebuild is somewhere between the $4K and $8K price. Having just had one done, I would say $5-6K. The problem is calculating all the "little stuff" that it may or may not need i.e. rebuilding the starter, generator, steering box, etc. etc. Oh, and let's not forget new rubber parts ($5K for a Sprint! I realize it is much less for a Spider, but boy do they add up).
The price for a "perfect paint job" here is $15-20K or more- much more. But then again, perfect is relative in the classic car market. Local car show perfect, or Pebble Beach perfect?
It appears the cost of having work done in Tasmania is a lot cheaper than in Colorado. Don't get me wrong, I think the price I'm paying is very reasonable, and I know the work is being done to a very high standard.
I would personally say that the high prices at auction may be a measuring post, but these tend to be VERY nice cars selling for this amount. That being said, a car like this would need to be VERY well restored to get anywhere near those prices, and I personally would be much more likely to pay top dollar for a car that did not have many of the panels replaced due to rust.
I still stand by my first assessment of $6-7K, either as a parts car OR as a restoration project, as a final end value (after transporting etc.). I do think the offer of $4K is very reasonable for the current owner. Saving every car sounds nice, but at some point the ones that do not need a good portion replaced with new sheet metal, DO need correct original parts to complete them.
So which ones do we save? I believe this one is a toss up.
Scott
I would say the cost of an engine rebuild is somewhere between the $4K and $8K price. Having just had one done, I would say $5-6K. The problem is calculating all the "little stuff" that it may or may not need i.e. rebuilding the starter, generator, steering box, etc. etc. Oh, and let's not forget new rubber parts ($5K for a Sprint! I realize it is much less for a Spider, but boy do they add up).
The price for a "perfect paint job" here is $15-20K or more- much more. But then again, perfect is relative in the classic car market. Local car show perfect, or Pebble Beach perfect?
It appears the cost of having work done in Tasmania is a lot cheaper than in Colorado. Don't get me wrong, I think the price I'm paying is very reasonable, and I know the work is being done to a very high standard.
I would personally say that the high prices at auction may be a measuring post, but these tend to be VERY nice cars selling for this amount. That being said, a car like this would need to be VERY well restored to get anywhere near those prices, and I personally would be much more likely to pay top dollar for a car that did not have many of the panels replaced due to rust.
I still stand by my first assessment of $6-7K, either as a parts car OR as a restoration project, as a final end value (after transporting etc.). I do think the offer of $4K is very reasonable for the current owner. Saving every car sounds nice, but at some point the ones that do not need a good portion replaced with new sheet metal, DO need correct original parts to complete them.
So which ones do we save? I believe this one is a toss up.
Scott
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10,285 Posts
It's closer to the Viking ship than a Chris Craft....perfect donor, not even close
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13 Posts
quick notes
yes...
i appreciate everyone's comments, as does the owner, I have been sharing them with her so that she can understand how the whole internet world works..
she is amazed at the wonderful reply's and comments made about her baby
someone earlier posted that i am not an alfa guy... well i could be an alfa guy but issue for me is that i already have my toys in my garage, and well even though my wife said i could/should buy it... i also have children that need a college fund, as i realize honestly how much labor and love it would take to bring this baby back to life
i posted here as i am a car guy, i posted it here because i know that one of you will recognize what the auto is and be able to do it justice, yes i could and maybe should post it over on to ebay, but i would really see someone here be able to make the offer to Beverly that makes her happy.
it was said that i am just trying to get the best price for her, who ever stated that, nailed it. i at the end of the day think that is the correct statement, for i understand now from all of the sage advice given and info learned over the past couple of days
.
I have enjoyed educating not only myself but her on the possible value of the car.
as i told her, i am honored and gracious for her letting me find a new steward for this auto,
cheers
fraser
yes...
i appreciate everyone's comments, as does the owner, I have been sharing them with her so that she can understand how the whole internet world works..
she is amazed at the wonderful reply's and comments made about her baby
someone earlier posted that i am not an alfa guy... well i could be an alfa guy but issue for me is that i already have my toys in my garage, and well even though my wife said i could/should buy it... i also have children that need a college fund, as i realize honestly how much labor and love it would take to bring this baby back to life
i posted here as i am a car guy, i posted it here because i know that one of you will recognize what the auto is and be able to do it justice, yes i could and maybe should post it over on to ebay, but i would really see someone here be able to make the offer to Beverly that makes her happy.
it was said that i am just trying to get the best price for her, who ever stated that, nailed it. i at the end of the day think that is the correct statement, for i understand now from all of the sage advice given and info learned over the past couple of days
.
I have enjoyed educating not only myself but her on the possible value of the car.
as i told her, i am honored and gracious for her letting me find a new steward for this auto,
cheers
fraser
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312 Posts
Well, if she paid $3480 and gets 4k for it she won't loose any money on it!
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2,623 Posts
Regarding rust repair costs: I had a Sprint that spent 30 years in dry storage and was nowhere near as rusty as this one. I was fortunate to have an experienced panel beater fix the sheetmetal in my garage - one of those guys who can make a fender with hand tools and a piece of sheet metal, and butt weld repair pieces to make an invisible joint. He was quite a bargain at $20/hour. Try to beat that.
Well, I paid him 400 hours to fix the car. No paint, just beautifully shaped but bare sheet metal. $8000 work + purchase price + cost of paint job + mechanical bits + chrome plating + upholstery = more than it was worth. It's no longer mine.
A restoration is something you go through because you need something to do with your own hands, not because it's worth it.
Well, I paid him 400 hours to fix the car. No paint, just beautifully shaped but bare sheet metal. $8000 work + purchase price + cost of paint job + mechanical bits + chrome plating + upholstery = more than it was worth. It's no longer mine.
A restoration is something you go through because you need something to do with your own hands, not because it's worth it.
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