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I would like to check the main and conrod bearings on my 1900 CSS.
The engine is a bit noisy mostly when cold.
I suppose I can have a good look by removing the sump.
Assuming some of these bearings will need to be replaced, can it be done without removing the engine from the car ?
Thanks.
 

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no, you must remove the engine from the car for a correct job.

it's not so difficult and you can check a lot of stuff around :smile2:
 

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Push hard and live
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I have one or two sets of main bearings that fit a 1900. My car is a 2000, so although I can use the shells, the rear bearing would be too wide for me. As I've got 3 freshly rebuilt engines, I'll never need these 1900 bearings. I'm fairly certain they are standard, but I can check if you are interested.
 

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Richard Jemison
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Noisy when cold

Your engine noise is far less likely to be bearings when lubricant is at it`s most viscous.

Commonly this would indicate excessive wear (clearance) between pistons and bore, resulting in piston "slap" when cold..

For a correct "fix" new "oversize" pistons and the block bored/honed to fit would be the correct repair.

However if there is not more than about .001 taper wear in the bores, you can knurl the pistons and replace rings and have a suitable improvement for low use motors.

If your oil pressure is good and low only at idle, rather than suspect crankshaft bearings, suspect excessive wear in the cam caps. This is the common problem area.
 

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Possible to do rods

On a two liter it is possible to do rod bearings, BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT MAIN BEARINGS without removing the engine from the car. But the pan on a 1900 is different, and I would not suggest doing that on a 1900. By the way, I recommend always using 20w50 oil. The factory recommended 20w40 when the engines came out, possibly because 20w50 was not yet readily available. Have you, by chance, just changed oil to some lesser weight (perhaps at the suggestion of someone else who did not know better?).

And hello Don Peterson. When you say you have main bearings for 1900, because you thought when you got them they would (but don't) fit your 102/2000 engine which has a narrow width rear main, that is because your engine has a number greater than AR00204*00436*. All engines for two liters with an engine number less than that have the wider rear main bearing just like a 1900. And, as an aside, 1900, 102/2000, 2600, sportiva, disco volante all use the identical rod bearings.

Don, If you have a second block you might later rebuild, check the engine number, but if your main bearings won't be needed by you SEATTLE DAN (on the BB) is doing his 102/2000 engine and needs both mains and rod bearings. Check to see if your main set is .010. And if you have rod bearing he needs .020. I thought I had his engine number, but can get it quickly.

Sad to tell everyone that bottom ends go out on 1900 and 102/2000 engines at about 50,000 because the journals are not hardened as Alfa began to do on the 105 series. Has anybody worked with or heard of a shop that could harden journals? I have heard rumors of case hardening or chroming or impregnating them with something, but have never seen or heard any firsthand reports. Any knowledge out there? Might someone comment?
 

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I did an overhaul on my engine 5 years ago. In that connection ,the workshop that did the grinding and drilling.
Asked if I wanted to have an induktion hardened crankshaft, harden the journals, witch I didn't.
On type 750-101-early 105. They offered to induktion hardening the journals. Its a common way to surface hardening.
On the 105 they started to harden in connection with the 1750 model from 1967. It was a nitrated hardening, a chemical treatment to harden the surface. Don't know, if this treatments is still in use. Or replaced by induktion hardened crankshaft.
 

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1900 Bearings

Jay - I do enjoy it when you read between lines that aren't really there. :wink2: I did not buy these 1900 bearings thinking they would fit my car, rather I'm just an acquisitive guy saving for a rainy day.

I learned years ago that, when restoring something mechanical and antique, it is far less costly to invest in hard to find parts when they appear, rather than the huge amount of time later when I actually need them but they are not readily available. Even when I may never need the parts, it's painless to let them go onward to someone who does.

In this case, it turns out I have a NOS set of Vandervell VP207 bearings in .010. These are the 3-wide, 2-narrow bearings. They are in their original box, still wrapped in the cosmoline-impregnated paper. Until today, I hadn't bothered to unwrap them, and I found that they are in very good shape, but that the micron-thin layer of tin sprayed onto the surface of the bearings has started to be a little spotted. This layer is applied, I believe, to provide for some initial lubrication, and to inhibit corrosion during storage. The dimensional change would be unmeasurable, as the later is, quite literally, a few microns thick. I used a paper towel and a little MEK to see how they cleaned up, and the pictures are following. I would use these bearings with no hesitation. In fact, I suppose in the back of my head was the possibility of having an engine that needed fresh main bearings some day, and if necessary I could use two of the wide sets, the two narrow sets, and re-use one set of narrow from whatever engine was being refreshed, probably putting the used bearings on the #2 or #4 saddles.

As it turns out, I also have NOS sets for the later 102 engines in .020 and .030, plus a .010 set made for the FNM - which can possibly be adapted to the 102 in a pinch. The 102 bearings are not for sale. I've also got conrod sets in most sizes, also not for sale, as I've got enough engines and a future-owner grandson that they may see use - if Jay's predictions about crank and bearing life are correct.

For anyone interested, the conrod bearings for the FNM and 102 (1900, 2600, etc) are all interchangeable. These can be found in Brazil for about half the price of the German stuff, if you can find a Brazilian to help you out. The logistics are a bit tough. They were half price when the dollar was crap compared to the other world currencies, so at present they would be even cheaper.
 

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Buce

I have one or two sets of main bearings that fit a 1900. My car is a 2000, so although I can use the shells, the rear bearing would be too wide for me. As I've got 3 freshly rebuilt engines, I'll never need these 1900 bearings.
Don. I apologize for ever suggesting I might know what you might have been thinking (or that you were ever thinking).:laugh2: I am quoting you, however. You later in the tread showed the Vendervell bearings VP207 which fit 1900 or pre engine 436 two liter and say they are 010, which is exactly what SEATTLE DAN needs. You make it clear you are not going to sell any rod bearings but are the main bearings for sale or not?:smile2:
 

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Mains for sale

Jay, if you're ever uncertain, I'm just joshing...

Yes, the mains are for sale. I posted a couple of pics to show condition. I believe they are fine, but each to his own.

We all know the going rate for new production bearings. These are Vandervell, which is good stuff. $250 OK?

Cheers


Don. I apologize for ever suggesting I might know what you might have been thinking (or that you were ever thinking).:laugh2: I am quoting you, however. You later in the tread showed the Vendervell bearings VP207 which fit 1900 or pre engine 436 two liter and say they are 010, which is exactly what SEATTLE DAN needs. You make it clear you are not going to sell any rod bearings but are the main bearings for sale or not?:smile2:
 

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Consider them sold!!!

Thank you, Don. I am sure Dan will want them. If it turns out he has an engine number too high, then I want them. My two liter sprint is coming along. Interior almost redone. Metal work on spare tire well and trunk floor done. Color was originally white when on the Brussels stand. But that was a black and white photo, so who would know if I got some of that bright yellow paint they use now on Lexus. Would be an eye-burner (i.e. more than a head turner). Stay tuned. Also sold my three extra 102/2000 spiders. The buyer actually came and checked them out. While here he got a message that his brother had purchased a fourth shell that had been dipped and determined too full of holes to restore so all pieces except shell, hood and door were sold off. Consequently I sold also all parts necessary to finish that one too. Tom and I argued for three days as to whether we had taken five apart or only four. Waiting for the dock strike to end so we can get them to Rotterdam. Guy from Australia used all his money on a winter (summer there) long race across the continent and decided he needed to work to catch up on his bills. Northwest Alfa Romeo Club which I incorporated on April 15, 1965 will have 50th anniversary at my Alfa G'Raj Mahal on Wednesday, April 15th. Believe I have a 4C lined up for event. When I threw the 25th in 1990 I managed to get the first 164 to give rides. Might even get a 4C ride this time, except I worry I might be too big. It can carry only two midgets with no luggage. If you get all your taxes done early you ought to come. Jay
 

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Hmmmm. Just might fly up for that party. In March we'll be taking in a Cubs Spring Training game or two in Phoenix, plus the Dame Edna Everidge Tour in SF. Your party just might meet the same standard as The Dame,
 

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Northwest Alfa Romeo Club which I incorporated on April 15, 1965 will have 50th anniversary at my Alfa G'Raj Mahal on Wednesday, April 15th.

Most impressive Jay; I turned 5 the following week! Still have fond memories of staying in your previous, 10 (I think) bedroom, house 20 years ago. There I met "Larry" the owner of APE and two years ago realized he rebuilt the 2600 (Montreal) engine before me.:surprise:

Don, I am also impressed that you would have three 'back-up' Two-Liter motors. I have such a small stash of Two-Liter parts now they almost all fit in a shoe box...without the 'parted out car' there was much more room in the garage. Jay must have an amazing amount of space available and cash; yippie:punk:
 

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Mark,

Only two backups, plus the FNM running in the car. Three would be silly.

When I finish this engine, plan is to mount it to the freshly overhauled trans and build a box around it with stained Walnut corners and plexi top and sides, and use it for a living room coffee table. "Kept in heated and air conditioned storage."

When I started my 102 project they were only just starting to attract attention, so spare parts weren't all that pricey. I bought a used engine and trans for $1,500 combined. Trans turned out to be a 2600 unit, which has a higher 5th gear perfect for the FNM.

Did you fix your 102 yet?

Boy..... What a thread hijack!
 
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