[Box33er]

Hi There,
It seems i have a little problem with my gearbox in my 33 16v, 1 can change into 1st, 3rd, 5th and Reverse. although i cant go into 2nd or 4th gears...does anyone know if this is 'fixable' or am i looking at buying a new gearbox?
If so does anyone know whether the gearboxes from either the series 1 or 2, 33's will fit and match up to my 16v engine??
I know its blasphemy but are there any other gearboxes from other cars that will match up to my little 33?
Thanks in advance

 

[budweiser_sud]

It sounds like the one of the selector forks or rods has messed up in some way. It is most certainly fixable, and you are better off repairing it rather than purchasing another gearbox - you'll just be buying someone else's problems otherwise.

Grab a copy of the Hayne's Alfasud repair manual and download the Alfa 33 manuals (search the BB, at least a few people have posted the links), and ready / study them as much as you can. Despite what it says, it is quite easy to rebuild 33/sud gearboxes providing you a) work methodically b) clean EVERYTHING as you dismantle the unit c) replace all the syncros d) lay everything out carefully in a nice clean work area.

If you don't want to tackle the job yourself, your next bet will be to find a mechanic that knows Alfas. I wouldn't trust the job with anyone else because it is very easy to screw up one of these units.

Gearboxes from other 33's will fit, but the ratios will probably be different. Fix the one you have, then you will KNOW that it will be a good box and last you quite a few more years to come.

~Benjamin

 

[Box33er]

Thanks Benjamin,
Thats quite a relief, il look into it. I have also read, and been told that to remove the transmission you, must remove the engine, although i have also read that the transmission can be removed without taking the engine out..is this possible?
Dave

 

[dave33]

I saw a sprint yesterday that wouldn't go into 5th. (similar box)The fault was found to be nothing more than one of the two bolts at the rear of the gearbox casing had fallen out. This allowed the gearbox extension to flex, and he couldn't select 5th. Might be a good idea to have a look up the back of the box and the gearbox linkage to make sure everything is as it should be, a similar fault might affect other gears ? It may well be selectors, but hey its cheap to look!

You definitely can remove the box with the engine in the car. Do make sure you take the distributor cap off before lowering the box or you'll crack it like I did mine!!

Cheers and good luck
David F

 

[budweiser_sud]

Definitely remove the engine and gearbox together as one unit - getting just the gearbox out will be a nightmare!

The 16v is the most complex of all the 33's - the main thing is to label all the connectors so you know where everything plugs in. It is reasonably straight forward as the connectors line up and you can follow where things go but there are a lot of them!

I'm about to stuff my 16v engine and gearbox back into my car, but I've got a bit more of a challange as I dismantled the engine bay entirely to repaint. I'm sure I'm going to have a few small parts left over!

~Benjamin

 

[enri]

a 33 in wollongong!
is that the red one that parks at the steelworks?

im not sure how dave33 removes the gearbox with the engine still in the car because the top engine mount is actually connected to the gearbox bellhousing. mabey if the engine is supported with jacks?

did this problem happen suddenly?

as far as fixing it yourself, taking the sump cover off is easy, but after that , putting the cover back on is the next easy thing. hopefully the problem is just in the linkages like dave33 suggested.

an alfasud gearbox might fit. but like budweiser sud said, 4.11:1 final drive with short close ratio gears

 

[77SudTi]

The casings for the series 1 and 2 33 gearboxes and earlier models to the 16V are slightly different. For the 16V there is a small relief on the side of the bell housing for the crank position sensor that reads off the flywheel, so get an earlier gearbox and it wont go on, unless its modified.

Your problem sounds puzzling to me, I need to think about this one..., gears 1st and 2nd are on one selector shaft, 3rd and 4th are on another and 5th and reverse are on another, often there is a problem with a pair of gears that share a selector shaft. I would say that if you can reach 1st, 3rd, 5th and reverse that your linkage mechanism and selector shafts are all ok, 5th and reverse selector shaft is fine. Id say the problem lies amongst the selector rings, perhaps you have two broken 'spiders' (see manual) as when they break you can often reach one gear and not another ,i'll keep thinking though...
How do the positions on the gearshift feel where 2nd and 4th are? Does it feel like it is selecting the gear and nothing happens or does the shift not want to move into position? Any strange noises?

 

[damonb]

To remove the gearbox without the engine, you remove the centre mount bolt at the bulkhead and tilt the engine back, supported by a suitable jack under the sump. Then you can slide the gearbox off the back of the engine, though the car does have to be up off the ground a fair way to give you space. It's easier and quicker than taking out the engine and g/box together.

 

[77SudTi]

To remove the gearbox without the engine, you remove the centre mount bolt at the bulkhead and tilt the engine back, supported by a suitable jack under the sump. Then you can slide the gearbox off the back of the engine, though the car does have to be up off the ground a fair way to give you space. It's easier and quicker than taking out the engine and g/box together.

Just a word of warning about supporting the engine by the sump, its not a recommended jacking point. The sump is relatively flexable, and if the sump is pushed into the pump screen you will loose oil pressure and damage your engine. Always support an engine from a strong point like the rear endplate or block, not a sheet metal structure. ( I know from experience, I bought my 33 dirt cheap simply because the sump was pushed hard against the pump pick-up)

It is better to support the engine minus gearbox with a specially made piece of tubular steel (with a few bends) that fits between the rear suspension arms and sits just in front of the flywheel.

 

[Box33er]

Thanks Everyone you are all champions, you've gotta love the alfa passion and mateship.
Yes Enri mine is *was* the 33 parked at the steelworks...shame i have to take it there though the works ruins nice cars so quickly. Enri do you use any alfa mechanics in the gong?
The problem wasnt all that sudden i guess, it happened after a sunday drive (up maquarie pass, down Jamberoo Mtn Rd...i dont believe i was giving it hell..??) and it happened on the straight in albion park.
77 Sud Ti, when I change to 2nd and 4th the gearstick just feels sloppy, no noises. So yes the gearstick does move into where its supposed (not into the gates as such though) and is simply sloppy as all hell. I have checked out the Alfa sud workshop manual just as Budweiser_Sud Suggested, geez it'll be a mess to pull apart.. but hey how else do you learn....?
i'll keep reading up about it the gearboxes
Thanks Again
Dave

 

[Vanquish]

Hello people, I'm new to this place. A Alfa boxer fan from the Netherlands so please don't mind the crappy English . I've been reading for a while, mostly the interesting topics but came across this one and i thought it was time to start posting. I remembered having pictures of taking a 16v (33 series 3) gearbox apart so ill try to help a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, its been a while since I've opened one of those gearboxes

This is a gearbox, freshly opened and things being where they are supposed to be, just dirty and used.
http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alfakf7.jpg

You might want to take a look at the part,left of the spring, thats on the bottom shaft, the one where your gear lever is attached to. That pin is held within the shaft of gears 3 and 4, and moving it up or down is either gear 1 and 2 or 5 and reverse. Sometimes that pin is worn out or something is too lose, for example the right bolt on the gear 1 and 2 shaft. I hope its one of those things and not something that has broken.

If you have the room for it you can do this without removing your whole gearbox, just drain the oil, jack it up safely and check it. But if something is broken or you feel that is a pain to work above your head you can remove the gearbox. You can do this without removing the engine btw. Like somebody said earlier you can loosen up the center mount bolt, but you dont have to remove it. It has clearance so it can move up and down a bit.

Get rid of the exhaust first. After that just detach the drive-shafts from the gearbox(let them hang on the steering-rods for example) Remove the 2 bolts at the back of the gearbox behind the gear lever. Then loosen the center engine mount bolt so it slides down. You might want to detach the starter right away, iirc the bolts go trough the gearbox-housing. Then you can work on the nuts and bolts of the gearbox.

I hope its all correct since its been a while, but it might help you anyway.

Good luck!

Edit:

BTW if you want some more pictures of taking the whole box apart and renewing the synchro-rings just say it

 

[fly33boxer]

Yep i think some pics on how to rebuild would be sweet now now now heheh

 

[77SudTi]

when I change to 2nd and 4th the gearstick just feels sloppy, no noises. So yes the gearstick does move into where its supposed (not into the gates as such though) and is simply sloppy as all hell. I have checked out the Alfa sud workshop manual just as Budweiser_Sud Suggested, geez it'll be a mess to pull apart.. but hey how else do you learn....?
i'll keep reading up about it the gearboxes
Thanks Again
Dave

The only conclusion I can reach is a pair of broken spiders (the 3 pointed star looking thing that sits at the centre of the selector ring and allows it to move between two gears) often they fatigue at one point and the selector ring no longer sits square and you have difficulty reaching a gear. Other symptoms can be no noise and your shift lever still moves into position with a sloppy feel. This is all speculation of course, you wont know the full story until you get your hands dirty
The only way to repair them is to do a total strip down and rebuild, hopefully small fragments haven't damaged other parts.

 

[damonb]

Good point 77sudti - it's certainly worth noting not to jack directly onto the sump but use a block of wood or similar as a load spreader. And I often find it easier jacking/supporting off the rear cover (again with the ubiquitous length of 4 by 2) during this operation.

 

[Box33er]

Welcome Vanquish, Yes guys its time to get the hands dirty!! maybe on the weekend, should be intresting. i'll assess whether to take the gearbox out only or whether to take both engine and gearbox out. once i have it on the hoist.
Cheers
Dave