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Discussion Starter #1
Anybody else noticing 164s seem to be worth (at least people are asking) about $1,000 more for them than 5-6 years ago? Inflation? Alfa's soon return? Fiats return? What do you think is causing this?
Charles
 

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Anybody else noticing 164s seem to be worth (at least people are asking) about $1,000 more for them than 5-6 years ago? Inflation? Alfa's soon return? Fiats return? What do you think is causing this?
Charles
Insurance company just came up with a 2613.78 fair market value on Sara's 164B she totaled in her accident. I got $2000 for a 91 164L and $2400 for a 93L last year.

Probably had more money in each of the cars with the repairs I had done but they were turn key cars when I sold them.
 

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If a car runs and has no major mechanical issues... someone who needs a vehicle will probably pay at least a $1000 for it. At least thats the trend here in Chicago. If somebody has a nice condition 164, I do not see any reason someone would not pay more.

Additionally, for someone who already owns a 164, buying a second for $1000 is not a bad investment because there are certainly more than $1000 worth in parts in it. Man, now that those words have come out of my mouth, I should really admit to being a 164-a-holic!

Think about it... 4 extra wheels, stepper motor, blower motor, radiator, a/c compressor, a/c condensor, glass, door handles (interior and exterior), headlights, tail lights, light bar, gas door, mirrors, the motor and more... You could easily spend over a $1000 purchasing only a select few of the above, so to pay a $1000 and get them all plus many more... thats a deal!
 

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A slight snag denting 164 values in NZ is a soaring price of fuel... a couple of years ago when oil prices went above US$100/barrel, NZ$1.30/litre was typical. A week ago, I filled up at NZ$2.42/litre. At today's exchange rate that's US$1.82/liter, or US$6.89 per US gallon (3.785L).

This is a bit of an issue when a 164 uses about twice as much fuel as a small car driven around town... Suddenly, the cost of filling the tank ($160) exceeds 10% of the car's value, and in one year of driving, you'll have used an extra $1000 in fuel compared to that smaller car. I'm fairly sure that was the reason a few of the interested buyers of my 164 lost interest, and is probably causing a dip in prices for a while, if not forever...

-Alex
 

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After reading the above am I to assume that $1,800 for a '91 base model with a bad front left bearing, bad mounts, half of switches inoperable, floor in the trunk missing, issues with thermostat, shoddy interior etc., is a bit too much to pay?

Any ideas as to what is a fair value on it? (Mileage at 116,000).

Thanks,

Simon
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Simon, I would think the car you describe is worth what the low mileage engine and trans is worth. Maybe $800-$900? The car as a whole, would be hard to find a buyer for, for almost any amount much over that figure. The rust issue is the deal breaker on that one. Does it really have that much rust? I have never heard of one having that much of a rust problem.
Charles
 

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Simon, I would think the car you describe is worth what the low mileage engine and trans is worth. Maybe $800-$900? The car as a whole, would be hard to find a buyer for, for almost any amount much over that figure. The rust issue is the deal breaker on that one. Does it really have that much rust? I have never heard of one having that much of a rust problem.
Charles
Charles,

Thank you very much for the information.
I am glad I made no commitment. A year and a half ago I bought a Spider for $1,000, thinking I got a deal.
The car does drive well, but to enjoy it I have to shut out the fact that I have additional $7,000 in it. I really own a $8,000, '86 Veloce, which, I guess is no bargain.

Thanks again,

Simon
 

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I made the mistake of not joining this forum before my first 164 purchase....what a disaster.
If I would have I wouldn't have purchased the car.
PO lied about everything on the car....now I am trying to sell it for Best Offer.
 

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After reading the above am I to assume that $1,800 for a '91 base model with a bad front left bearing, bad mounts, half of switches inoperable, floor in the trunk missing, issues with thermostat, shoddy interior etc., is a bit too much to pay? Any ideas as to what is a fair value on it? (Mileage at 116,000).
You didn't say if this car was a manual or an automatic - manuals are worth more. So, if it's a "stick" I concur with ChazzyD - about half that $1,800 asking price, or $900, sounds about right. If it's an automatic, free would be about right. Any 20 year old car requiring that much work is basicly valued as a parts car.

ChazzyD said:
The rust issue is the deal breaker on that one. Does it really have that much rust? I have never heard of one having that much of a rust problem.
I don't think Simon is saying the trunk floor rusted out - I interpreted his post as saying that the fiberboard shelf that fits above the spare tire just got lost somewhere in the car's life.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That makes sense that just the fiberboard/carpet is missing. LOL. :D If it's an automatic, it is definitely worth less. I had a chance to buy an automatic parts car with a disassembled motor, I passed on that. I wouldn't have given him as much has he wanted for it anyway. The only parts car worth getting is one that very closely matches the car you have (and is very cheap).
Charles
 

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Thank you everybody for the input and the advice.
The car I'm looking at is manual. A friend, who owns a Ferrari 400 drove it and was rather benevolently inclined toward it, but after all the research and input from all of you, he thinks that the seller, very likely bought it for what you suggest it's worth, about $900 and is trying to double his money.

I was a little bit disconcerted that the oil pressure, once warmed up, regardless of how high we revved it stayed below 55. My GTV-6 '85, had well over 150,000 miles and the oil pressure was always off the scale.

I have a feeling that the previous owner was a frustrated racing driver drag-racing people at the traffic lights.
They should definitely outlaw the "Zero to Sixty" benchmark. God knows how many engines were ruined testing that benchmark.

Simon
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The oil pressure senders on these 164s are notorious for indicating low oil pressure. If the oil light doesn't come on, it should be good. These cars show zero oil pressure (or just above) at idle many times when fully warmed up. The biggest thing I would look at when looking at a 164 is whether the paint is good and the interior is decent. That may sound silly, but paint is expensive, nice interiors are hard to find and I can fix or replace anything else on the car mechanically. If I was a body shop guy, I would probably consider things differently. I have stripped cars to metal and painted them before, but I don't really like that line of work.
Charles
 

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If you get 55 psi cold on a 164 that is max you will ever see on electric sender set up. Hot idle is about 20 on direct reading gauge and usually zero on dash gauge.

If you are not into fixing things don't buy it and if you are don't pay over 750 for it.

We just bought back daughter's wrecked 164B for $350 from insurance company. I paid 900 for it in 2005 and brought it back to it's former glory (including paint) and since it was a daily driver with everything fixed correctly I had a few thousand more in it.

They figured fair market value considering near excellent condition of car was 2613.78.

The last 4 I bought I paid $700 for 91 164S (non-running), 475 for 91 164L (running driver), 450 91 164L(non-running) and 750 93L (running blown clutch).
 

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Steve, and all others:

Thank you very much for the input and cool-headed advice.

I was very inclined to give the guy $1,800. He said he is not prepared to do any more work on it, and has two people lined up to look at it tomorrow, but will hold it for me till Friday if I want it. (Sounds a little contradictory. What if they make him an offer?)

I was thinking of saying good bye to a thousand dollars, but after Steve's post I've just saved myself additional $250, or may be all the money I don't have at any rate.

Thanks again everyone,

Simon
 

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After reading the above am I to assume that $1,800 for a '91 base model with a bad front left bearing, bad mounts, half of switches inoperable, floor in the trunk missing, issues with thermostat, shoddy interior etc., is a bit too much to pay?

Any ideas as to what is a fair value on it? (Mileage at 116,000).
Simon,

Go easy here as I believe $1800.00 is far too much....just for the issues listed.
There is no mention of last Tbelt and related servicing or any mechanical info for that matter.
Have you checked out the steering rack and trans axle rubber boots etc?
Does the A/C work?
Clutch condition?

Any used 164L which is NOT "turnkey" (quote Steve) is literally worth about $500.00 unless very special circumstances apply.

If you hold out and see whether those folks "lined up" by the seller actually materialize you will be in a good position to offer far lower.
If not there are plenty of good Alfa's out there.....
 

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Simon,

Go easy here as I believe $1800.00 is far too much....just for the issues listed.
There is no mention of last Tbelt and related servicing or any mechanical info for that matter.
Have you checked out the steering rack and trans axle rubber boots etc?
Does the A/C work?
Clutch condition?

Any used 164L which is NOT "turnkey" (quote Steve) is literally worth about $500.00 unless very special circumstances apply.

If you hold out and see whether those folks "lined up" by the seller actually materialize you will be in a good position to offer far lower.
If not there are plenty of good Alfa's out there.....
Don:

Thank you very much for re-enforcing what appears to be a sound view and a consensus on the 164.

I bought brand new GTV-6 and Spider Quad, and judge all Alfas by my own cars.

Evidently I have a more than fair chance of owning this car at far better price. For whatever it's worth the seller listed it at $2,500 and said he was ready to accept 1,750 for it but the buyer could not come up with the money. This, of course, tells a lot.

Will definitely post whatever the upshot of this adventure.

Simon
 

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"I was a little bit disconcerted that the oil pressure, once warmed up, regardless of how high we revved it stayed below 55. My GTV-6 '85, had well over 150,000 miles and the oil pressure was always off the scale."

If your GTV6 oil pressure was indicating that high something was wrong.

Really nice 164s (paint, interior, mechanicals) with current maintenance records can be had for way under $4K. The cost of bringing one up can be prohibitive unless you have cheap parts cars like everyone says. You still have to do the timing belt and tensioner right out of the box unless you have a lot of faith.
 

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"I was a little bit disconcerted that the oil pressure, once warmed up, regardless of how high we revved it stayed below 55. My GTV-6 '85, had well over 150,000 miles and the oil pressure was always off the scale."

If your GTV6 oil pressure was indicating that high something was wrong.

Really nice 164s (paint, interior, mechanicals) with current maintenance records can be had for way under $4K. The cost of bringing one up can be prohibitive unless you have cheap parts cars like everyone says. You still have to do the timing belt and tensioner right out of the box unless you have a lot of faith.
You may be right about the GTV-6 oil pressure, but it always was that way, and I bought it new. Once fully warmed up and driving it would drop to about the midway between 75 and the highest number. Under sudden deceleration it would always rise, which I am told is how it should be. I drove it on CA Route 1 all the way to San Simeon from San Francisco and back, as that provided for best oil compression on a new car (that is what Mr. Menzies an Alfa dealer in SF believed.)
(Incidentally, there is an identical one on eBay, three days to go, it's at $4,000 now, black - mine was Alpine White. What a car! Why don't I have the money to call the guy and simply say: mine!)

The more I think of the 164 the happier I am I don't own it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Like everyone is telling you, 55 on the gauge is fine, it's in fact where mine reads too. We are not saying you shouldn't try to buy this 164 or a 164 at all, just don't over pay for it if it is not in good shape, 'cause you will have to spend time and money on it to get it to your standards (only you know what that is). They are 20 years old after all. If you don't have either, than don't walk away, run away! None of us really wants anyone to buy a 164 that might make life heck for them. If you want to pick one up as a hobby, that is really what they are good for at this point, as is a Milano or GTV6, Spider, etc. If you don't like the idea of "car as hobby", than an old Alfa is not for you.
Charles
 

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None of us really wants anyone to buy a 164 that might make life heck for them. If you want to pick one up as a hobby, that is really what they are good for at this point, as is a Milano or GTV6, Spider, etc. If you don't like the idea of "car as hobby", than an old Alfa is not for you.
There are always a few exceptions and I bought a 164 three years ago for US$600, I drove it for two years with only one job done on it (anti-roll bar link bushes), didn't even replace a tyre. Never had to charge the battery or do anything else other than put fuel in. Most reliable car I've ever owned... and I sold it for what I bought it for. I wouldn't say that car was a hobby, it was more a practical means of transport.

I lent my current 164 to someone and that was a different story. Within an hour the clutch was stuck down, the engine was boiled over, and I got to the car to find the door trim was pulled off - "couldn't get the window to go up"... Of course this car had been perfect with me driving, but with that other person driving, apparently instruments stopped working, doors wouldn't open, you name it. So perhaps they can be really bad after all.

-Alex
 
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