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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have 164's audio system wiring with amplifier installed?? I couldn't find it on both cardiscs.... I dont know if they r different, to be specific for 164Q with disc changer/amplifier option.

thanks,
-Pavan.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Pavan,

What are you trying to do?
Last weekend I tried to replace my all ready in place kenwood headunit with a pioneer one, in this process, I saw the plugs for amp and cd-changer laying behind the headunit area. But I see speaker wires running to the amp, but dunno if its actually powered.

Anyway I am also planning to install one of my laptops in my Q along with GPS. Just thought that it would be good if I have wiring in hand.

-Pavan
 

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The stock head unit has a wiring loom plug that only has a remote output for the antenna, ignition power, constant power and a ground. A Din cable connects the to the stock Fujitsu Ten (Eclipse) changer in the trunk and another DIN cable runs to the power amplifier under the passenger seat.

To install a new head unit you have to splice into the speaker wires as they come out of the amplifier.

If I recall correctly the speaker wires then run from the amp back towards the radio location and then outward to the individual speakers.

The tweaters have a capacitor style crossover hard mounted to their back sides next to the magnet.

I don't know if the amplifier is line level or not.

This is all from memory since I don't have a Q anymore and haven't done any stereo re-wires on them in a few years. Hope it helps.
 

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If you want to install a decent sounding system my best advice would be to yank the entire system and run completely new speaker wires and install new component speakers in the door with a separate crossover box in the doors as well as new 6x9 speakers in the rear shelf.

The tweater bodys (not the actual speakers) tend to crack and fall apart. They are usually fine until you try to remove them at which point they inevitably just sorta fall apart.

By now the stock speakers in the lower door panels and the 6x9s in the trunk probably have rotten surrounds and compromised cones. The stock speakers weren't bad but after more than a decade they will have inevitably rotted away enough to degrade the sound significantly.

As always don't throw any of the stock parts away (especially the head unit) as you'll need them for re-sale.

You can fit a small aftermarket amplifier under the passenger seat but be aware of the heat duct located there. Ideally the best location is mounted in the trunk underneath the rear deck between the speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Tim, thts helps....

-Pavan
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am not thinking of revamping the whole audio setup like someone with trunk full of amps and woofers etc :p. But I would like to have a decent sound system with good speakers and the system should be good enough to reproduce all the frequencies with good noise level performance. Surprisingly the stock speakers are still intact, nothing damaged, but they are not that powerful for wht I am expecting, but they are good. Anyway will keep ya all updated on my project.

-Pavan
 

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Sound gear - at a reasonable price

Well here's another familiar face - Tim 'Laverdas!' Annett - I thought you had farewelled from the 164 Discussions forum months ago, so it's great to see you're still here. :) I agree with everything you said, particularly about the speakers.

Fujitsu Ten rings a bell... that's right, I bought a cheap 1990 Toyota Celica GT-R (*** import) that had that system fitted, six speakers, cd changer, amp under the passenger's seat and everything. I guess it would be the same period as the 164.

Modern head units are more powerful than the head units of old. These days, most claim '52W' per channel - and then they have a 10A or 15A fuse... which would be 10x12 = 120W watts total on a good day. In other words, they're about 18W RMS per channel. But that's a lot more than old head units were (often about 6W RMS).

Old amplifiers tended to be about 25W RMS per channel, so a bit more powerful than a modern head unit, but hardly enough to be worth all the bother in my opinion. Today's amps start at 50W RMS per channel, and go right up to hundreds.

Each 3dB increase in sound level requires a doubling of power, so once you start aiming for 'dB drags', it gets silly quite quickly. At weekends I work in a shop where we have 800W RMS amps. People use them for 'sound off' competitions which are the ultimate sillyness in my opinion. You know the type where the speakers and amps weigh as much as the engine, and the stereo can only be listened to safely from outside the car. The power cable is often 2-gauge, with appropriate ($$$) connectors. Just the slightest bad ground is enough to screw everything - speakers and amps - by DC offsets.

I just shake my head and go back to quality speakers running off head unit power or, in my Uno Turbo, a 4x50W amp that has two channels bridged to drive a 10" carbon-fibre sub, in an enclosure I made that bolts in place of the spare wheel. The other two channels drive some Kevlar speakers mounted in MDF screwed inside the front doors. This lot was bought at staff prices ;) I believe that 4x 50W is plenty of power. Much better value too.

In my 164, I intend to put in some Infinity Kappa 6.5" components to the front doors, leave the rear 6x9s as they are (I like most of the sound to come from the front), and run all four speakers off a new head unit that also plays DVDs and has a TV tuner, with Bluetooth for my phone. I just bought this no-brand head unit online a couple of minutes ago, for US$315. We'll see.

Usually I prefer European gear like the Blaupunkt London RDM168 I had in my last 164. However, the 'cheap ****' seems to be getting better, at least in appearance (subtle and classy, no flashing lights or tiny buttons). Some of the Japanese gear (e.g. my Sony in the Uno) is the worst offender - *tiny* buttons. I'll report my findings later...

Also the cheap Sony only has one pair of line-outs, for "rear/sub". I wanted to amplify the front speakers - so I achieved that by setting the head unit to 'rear', using the crossover in the amp to drive the sub, and running the amp for the front speakers off this 'rear' output as well. Rear speakers are hooked up to the un-amplified head unit front speaker outputs. My fader is back-to-front, but who cares... I saved hundreds ;)

In my experience, the speakers and installation make more of a difference to the sound than the power levels or the head unit. The more expensive head units are usually nicer to use, with refinements such as the ability to power-on with the ignition key off (and still switch off with the key...), night-dimming, etc. The original Blaupunkt radio/cassette in my 164 is lovely to use - it has these refinements I mentioned and more - but the LCD is dead and it can only play tapes or give a slightly crackly radio reception... then again, it is 16 years old! I doubt that the super-duper EON-841TV will still be working in 16 years time...

-Alex
 

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Alex!

In my 164s I never had too much going except for aftermarket head units.

In my first spider I had a nice little system though.

Boston Acoustic 5.25" component speakers. The mids in the kick panels, tweeters located in the doors.

Boston Acoustic 3" speakers mounted inside the outboard dash vents. You couldn't see them at all but they really filled the 'gaps' in the sound between the component speakers.

All these were hooked up to a Precision Power 4200am 4x50w amp and an Audiocontrol EQX crossover/equilizer to send the correct sounds to the correct speakers as well as to compensate for speaker locations (the 3" vent speakers were pointed directly at the passenger/driver....). The amp and crossover were mounted to a carpet covered board that was shaped to fit snugly on one side of the Spider's trunk. My little platter of power! This was all back in about 1992-3 when I was 16/17.

I had intended to build a false rear deck to house an 8" sub behind the seats but never got around to it and never really missed it. I have always held clarity and precision to be the highest of goals when it comes to mobile/home audio/video. Volume isn't as great a concern as I hardly ever turn the tunes up.

After selling the spider I never sunk that much money into car audio again However I did mount a set of MB Quart component speakers in my first 164 and used the old 4200am amp to power them. I'm a huge fan of Boston Acoustic though and I think that if I ever do create another little system it wil be using those again. BA speakers seem to have very nice clarity.

Anyway, I digress!!!!
 

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My sotck 1995 Q system rocks. I did put new rear speakers in and a bazooka powered sub. Nice set-up.

I am now putting in the Audiovox FM modulator for my Ipod (which turns off the the antennae input while in MP3 mode). I found a great connector on e-bay with RCA outputs and inegrated hardwired changing leads. Pull the ashtry insert out and my ipod mini fits flat in there perfectly. Little on-off Audiovox toggle switch installed inside the ashtray too. Even the lid closes and hides the Ipod inside.

BTW, if you are tearing out the stock unit and amp, you simply remove the harness which runs from the head unit, to the amp, and back to the head unit. It then hooks up to the speaker wires, right behind the head unit. By taking this wire loom out, you have the speaker leads right where you need them and the old amp out of the circuit. I don't see why you would need to run new speaker wires as they are acceptable gauge IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How hard is it to take off the amp from under the seat??

-Pavan.
 

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It is easy. But, you don't even need to actually remove it. It can stay there and be bypassed as indicated.

To remove, you need to take out the seat, which is 4 easy allen key bolts and a couple connectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It is easy. But, you don't even need to actually remove it. It can stay there and be bypassed as indicated.

To remove, you need to take out the seat, which is 4 easy allen key bolts and a couple connectors.
Yeh, I can keep it there, but removing it from there when it is not in use makes for the rear vent to blow some more air. At present, the amp is kinda in way of the rear floor vent. But, once it is taken out, it goes into the stock parts bin :) along with the stock headunit.

-Pavan.
 

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The amp doesn't take up any usable space. It is tucked underneath carpet and the metal support frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The amp doesn't take up any usable space. It is tucked underneath carpet and the metal support frame.
or atleast I am taking off some unuseful weight off the car :p:p:D.

-Pavan.
 
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