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Discussion Starter #1
I have a friend who has a 1995 164 LS and today the clutch pedal went to the floor. I pulled it back for them and now its like I am hitting the brake pedal! I push hard on the clutch and its hard as a rock and does nothing but I can put it in first gear and the car will move? I put my big pry bar on the clutch lever on the trans and its hard as hell and does not move?


So my question is what can it be?
 

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I had a similar failure on my S a few eeks ago, it turned out that the T/O had broke. When the transmission was removed a handful of ball bearings came rolling out. Since nothing is serviceable with the transmission in place, I suspect you will at least have to remove the transmission to check for damage or failure of clutch parts. Good Luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had a similar failure on my S a few eeks ago, it turned out that the T/O had broke. When the transmission was removed a handful of ball bearings came rolling out. Since nothing is serviceable with the transmission in place, I suspect you will at least have to remove the transmission to check for damage or failure of clutch parts. Good Luck.

I removed the transmission last night (all night!) and I found the same thing in my LS trans. The T/O bearing was in pieces.

That starter is a pain but its out now.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Heres some pics
 

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Discussion Starter #6
T/O pics and a few more. The last pic is the sunset at port Canaveral just to relax me after that hard job!:)
 

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What a familiar sight!! It seems the T/O is the weak link in the clutch set. Unless you have already cleaned it up, the T/O sleeve and input shaft are dry. Just did the same process a few weeks ago. I also had the starter rebuilt while it was out. For all the trouble to get to it now is the time to fix and/or pm items in the area.
 

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Hey guys! How many miles are on these cars with the failed TO bearings?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
My black LS has about 127k and the black LS that I looked at in Atlanta had the same problem and it had about 130 as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I sure hope the Q 4 164 does not have this problem?
 

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Not sure why you pulled end cap off differential bearing but don't lose that bearing preload shim hanging on end of intermediate axle. I really do know why but just because easier to remove tranny that way does not make it easier to reinstall. Ask me how I know.

I would now reinstall that end cap with tranny bellhousing setting straight up on bench so differential seats itself back in L/H outer bearing race. Then seat R/H bearing race then install preload shim on top of R/H bearing race. Install a new large oring on end cap. Would be a good idea to install new shaft oil seal in end cap too.

I just remove intermediate axle from tranny before pulling tranny without removing end cap because trying to reinstall tranny input shaft into clutch disc splines and differential onto IM shaft at same time an almost impossible task. I just remove three bolts holding IM shaft bearing in engine mount housing and remove 4 bolts holding lower R/H strut to R/H axle carriage and rock brake rotor out on lower ball joint to pull IM axle out still hooked to outer axle. Takes a little juggling to reinstall IM into tranny afterwards but not to hard compared to trying to line up IM axle and input shaft to clutch at same time.
 

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Hum, looks like a pattern to me...
The 93L I picked up last year had 176K on it's push type clutch with failed TO bearing but owner keep driving it with howling TO bearing until it failed.

Bet Pull type on S and 24v models won't last that long based on mileage listed above.
 

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Steve, that is good advice. It is a bear to juggle the transmission and get is stabbed into the clutch assembly all at one time. I could imagine also trying to get the IM shaft in also. I have always just taken the R/H axle loose from the IM shaft. Then slide the IM shaft out of the way. It is much easier to reinstall the IM shaft once the transmission in back in place.

When I S transmission was out, I replaced both big o-ring seals, the out shaft seals, and the input sleeve with seal. These are much easier on the bench than to try changing while the transmission is in the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you Andrew it was good to talk to you today. Clutch kit ordered. It will be here tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not sure why you pulled end cap off differential bearing but don't lose that bearing preload shim hanging on end of intermediate axle. I really do know why but just because easier to remove tranny that way does not make it easier to reinstall. Ask me how I know.

I would now reinstall that end cap with tranny bellhousing setting straight up on bench so differential seats itself back in L/H outer bearing race. Then seat R/H bearing race then install preload shim on top of R/H bearing race. Install a new large oring on end cap. Would be a good idea to install new shaft oil seal in end cap too.

I just remove intermediate axle from tranny before pulling tranny without removing end cap because trying to reinstall tranny input shaft into clutch disc splines and differential onto IM shaft at same time an almost impossible task. I just remove three bolts holding IM shaft bearing in engine mount housing and remove 4 bolts holding lower R/H strut to R/H axle carriage and rock brake rotor out on lower ball joint to pull IM axle out still hooked to outer axle. Takes a little juggling to reinstall IM into tranny afterwards but not to hard compared to trying to line up IM axle and input shaft to clutch at same time.

Steve I unbolted everything that I thought had to come off to be sure.
 

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Lenard, check the stub axle bearing while you have everything apart. It is a cheap fix and easy to get to now. Not so easy later.
 

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Steve I unbolted everything that I thought had to come off to be sure.
Well, put it back together as suggested to be sure your have the differential bearings preload set. That shim is important part of setting preload with tranny setting upright on 5th gear case. As long as you don't lose shim and tranny was OK going in it should be OK.
 
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