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Discussion Starter #1
I did try to search for an answer but not finding one (or looking at the right place), I will post for asistance.

My 95 164 has only warm air coming out into cabin, even at full cold (not certain air works but should still be cooler when set to open vent). I did see the lever had disconnected from arm (under engine compartment cover) and I reconnected and it does move in and out when temperature is changed but actual temperature stays at a constant. Currently 95f at idle. Won;t be an issue during winter but as it won't be winter driven, have to get this fixed. The PO swears it was working... yea,

Thanks fr your help.
 

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Most of us 12v 164 owners have installed a hot water shut off valve in heater hose line coming off front head but on 24v heater hose comes off rear head and harder to install water shut off valve.

I would dicsonnect cable again from lever in engine compartment and see if you can move lever full forward and backward and see if you can hear temp control doors in back of blower motor housing closing and opening. Lever full forward is full cold setting as two flapper doors if still hooked together are closed against each other then. If lever is against steel fire fully rearward that is full hot.

Also with cabin recirculate button selected ensure the fresh air door in top of evaporator box under passenger wipe blade area stepper motor has closed door.

Also inspect seal coupling between evaporator box and blower motor to seal if you are sucking in hot air from engine.

Be sure false firewall top seal intact and will push against hood when closed and that big round wiring harness rubber gromment tight in false firewall.

Report your findings and progress correctly you hot air issue.
 

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You probably should let us know where you live (the climate is important), the exact model, and if you have a factory AC system, or none at all. For US cars there is no "fresh air vent" like many cars of that period. Any air, even ambient, is fed by the fan in either "econ" or "auto" mode. If you turn the HVAC "off" there is no air at all, dead. It's possible that your "warm air coming into the cabin", is just a result of a little heat emanating from the heater core (heat bleed). You need to turn on the HVAC and while a friend adjusts the temperature from max cold to max hot, you should watch the actuator rod in the engine compartment. The full heat setting should move it towards the cabin, while the full cold setting towards the engine compartment.
 

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Good call Pinio. Sometimes I assume to much when a poster is not clear with what is the full configuration of his 164.
 

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"not certain air works but should still be cooler when set to open vent"

Not at first, if the hvac seals leak hot air from around the hot heater core (hot from previous driving) as with the 12V set up. I found that it takes quite a while for cool outside air to start having an effect in the cabin. If you have it, make sure that the a/c works, as the 24V a/c is great, and if turned on at hot start up, ie, when the heater core is hot from previous driving, it will cool things very quickly. Then I turn the a/c off. That's what I do with mine.


"but on 24v heater hose comes off rear head and harder to install water shut off valve"

Not to steal the post but a thought just popped up, that I would just get more hose, maybe 1 1/2-2 feet, and mount a valve in the junction between the original hose coming through the firewall, and the new piece of extra hose going to the rear head, maybe winding in a loop under the bellows, or with elbows. Or, in the middle of the new piece of hose.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
O.K. To be more exact, I have a 24v engine. I have tried all of the settings and no change. The lever does move in and out but I am wondering if there is a buste connection within the box and the flap itself is not moving from the "heat" position?
Just prefer not to pull out the entire dash.

Thanks.
 

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It's very possible that the cable ending in an "eye" inside the dash got detached from the lever of the air temperature stepper. I personally don't know 24v cars, although there's an air bag in the way, perhaps there's a possibility of shining a light in there to see if the cable is unhooked.

It would be helpful if you'd answer some of the questions in post #3, we don't even know if you have an AC.
 

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O.K. To be more exact, I have a 24v engine. I have tried all of the settings and no change. The lever does move in and out but I am wondering if there is a busted connection within the box and the flap itself is not moving from the "heat" position?
Just prefer not to pull out the entire dash.

Thanks.
It's very possible that the cable ending in an "eye" inside the dash got detached from the lever of the air temperature stepper. I personally don't know 24v cars, although there's an air bag in the way, perhaps there's a possibility of shining a light in there to see if the cable is unhooked.

It would be helpful if you'd answer some of the questions in post #3, we don't even know if you have an AC.
Tell us is this a USA spec 95 164Q or LS with factory A/C system?

I will guess the answer is YES. And since you state the temp cable moves in and out I will guess it is moving lever forward for cool and rearward for heat at back of blower motor housing behind false firewall under the hood. If that is true then the temp control stepper motor and gear box are working as you raise and lower temp buttons on A/C panel. So if this is true you do not have to move interior dash out to access stepper assembly.

Now does air direction stepper motor/gear box function when pushing buttons to change air flow for under dash for heat to dash for A/C and out defrost ducts at base of windshield?

If lever at blower motor housing working and recirculation motor will open and close door on top of evaporator box under passenger wiper and other steppers working and you still have hot air your best bet to control heat if air temp doors in blower motor housing do not close even though lever moving you need to install hot water shut off valve in heater hose coming off rear head using a extra section of hose, 3/4" elbow and clamps.

To make a real repair to door inside blower motor housing you would need to remove false firewall, window wiper assembly and blower motor housing (all work from engine side not inside car.
 

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"you need to install hot water shut off valve in heater hose coming off rear head using a extra section of hose, 3/4" elbow and clamps"

That was my thought as well, esp if his a/c doesn't work.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
O.K. Yes, I do have ac innerds BUT ac is not working so either compressor or no pressure. In any case, looks as if I should work from the engine compartment and get to the flap and do a real diagnosis and repair. All the directional controlls and the fan speed settins work so I am thinking th einside of the flap is not connected to the outside lever. Installing a shut off seems kinda primative.
 

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Primitive or not, these are 20 plus year old cars. Stuff wears out. If you want a system that operates as new, you need to replace all the flappers, seal, steppers, seals around heater core, etc, etc. It's just a whole lot easier to install a shut off valve like many of us have done. A couple of guys even put in electrically activated solenoid valves they can activate from the cabin. Not to shabby if you ask me.
 

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Before jumping into removing the false firewall, and all that other work, try putting in some 134a to see if the a/c will work, usually takes at least 25-30 psi minimum. If it does allow the pump to turn on, the a/c will easily take care of any residual heat which would come into the cabin. It may just be low on fluid, or a fuse blown, you never know.

Those who chose to put a valve in the heater hose in their 12V cars did it because the system used R12 in the a/c. Most of the time the a/c in those cars never worked well, or not at all, so having the valve was basically essential to reduce the heat in those 164's.

The 24V engine a/c is much better than that in the 12V version. I'd try to get the a/c to work before doing anything else. You may find that just starting the a/c for a couple of minutes when doing a hot start will drop the temperature quickly. then you can shut off the a/c in most cases. This is what I find in my LS.

If the a/c cannot be started after adding fluid, the installed valve will help some to lower the cabin temperature.
 

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How are things coming along beeton?

I am curious to know if you have investigated further into your problem since it appears that I am experiencing exactly the same thing as you. My temperature control stepper motor moves the lever fully forward and fully backward but I am still getting hot air inside the car even when I have the temperature set to LO.

How hard is it to take out the blower housing assembly? It doesn't seem like it would be too bad? Is there any other possible cause for this problem other than the seals around the temperature control doors going bad or the temperature control doors themselves not functioning properly for some reason? Has anyone experienced a bad temperature sensor causing this problem? I know there are three temperature sensors for the system and there is also a ecu that controls the entire system, is it possible for the HVAC system ecu to be bad and cause this problem?

Anyways, if anyone has anymore light to shed on this matter I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. I need all the help I can get to help me solve this problem on my own car. :wheelchair:

Thanks everyone,

George
 

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Hi George. Hope your car is running well. Just put in the valve in the heater hose as most of us have done. Makes a big difference. Much easier than trying to refurbish all of the icky foam insulation /gasketing which has probably failed, letting hot air get into the cabin when even set on low. Made the difference in my 91S.
 

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Thanks Del...

my car is running just fine. I appreciate the advice regarding the addition of the heater control valve but the funny thing is that I never had this issue of too much heat getting into the car's interior until just recently. It all seemed to happen so fast which makes me wonder if there is more likely an electrical and/or mechanical reason for my particular situation rather than just the gaskets getting old and failing which I would think would be more gradual of a failure over a longer period of time.

I hope that beeton will chime in if he has done more work on his car and will report what he has found if it will help out the rest of us. I am not saying that the control valve is not a good idea but I would like to know if there is possibly something else wrong with my system other than just the gasket being old and tired. Has anyone ever had problems with the temperature mixture doors for example? Are there any chances that these doors won't open or close properly even though the external plastic lever that controls them is being moved forwards and backwards completely by the cable attached to the temperature control stepper motor?

Thanks again guys in advance for any possible insight.

George
 

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The valve is so easy to do, so just go to the hardware store and buy one and install it. If you still have the same problems, then yes, there may be something else. Do the easy stuff first, esp since you will eventually have to do it anyway as the seals rot away from old age, guaranteed.
 

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Has anyone ever had problems with the temperature mixture doors for example? Are there any chances that these doors won't open or close properly even though the external plastic lever that controls them is being moved forwards and backwards completely by the cable attached to the temperature control stepper motor?

Thanks again guys in advance for any possible insight.

George
George as discussed in post above and before yes the lever can move forward and backward with a good temp stepper motor and not move the interconnected temp flapper door(s) inside blower motor housing.

I have seen lever loose on inner door 1 pivot point and also has seen broken interconnecting link between door 1 and door 2. If either problem occurs you are going to get heat into interior of car.

Also to a lesser degree if recirculation door steeper motor in evaporator box located under right side windshield wiper arm area does not close when internal air selected you can get exterior heated ambient air from engine bay if you have bad seal on top of false firewall. If you don't have a proper functioning a/c system with correct amount of freon then this can be another reason for hot air out of system.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sorry for not following up but have been busy with my "deputy mayoral" campaigning up here. I have been aiming to remove the wiper arms, motor, blower, etc. and do a proper repair on the flaps-foam but have been busy or weather has not cooperated.
Hope to get to it within the next few days and will report back.

Regards

Peter B.

P.S. If you know anyone in New Tecumseth, tell 'em to vote for me.
 

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I hope on a 24V the wiper arms and motors are easier to work on than the 12V. I'm trying to remember if I removed my hood when I did it to replace a motor. Maybe it was defective arm mech but it was a pain for sure to get wiper to clock correctly. Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with your heater issue :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Not hard to remove. On the 24v, there are 2 nuts on the dr side. One small one and one larger one. Th elarger holds the arm and the smaller holds an extra lever, likely for stress reduction. The small one is not knurled and it is easy to break the stud if you overtighten.... as I did. Pain in the *** as I had to drill out the nub, fit in a new bolt with the same thread, cut off the head.

The arms have knurled fittings and these do strip so carefull.

Will let you know how things go.
 
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