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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anybody in the world make a 16 v head for the 105 series 2 litre block other than the rare Angelini 16v? Any information appreciated. Wishful thinking.
 

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This is a out there suggestion, but what the heck ;).

Has anybody compared the bore centres and bore size to the many other manufacturers cylinder heads. What I mean here is would it be possible (with a lot of machining and cleverness) to put a say (an early 4 cylinder) BMW M3 cylinder head on a 105 series block, and then cast a new cam cover with Alfa Romeo inscribed.

Almost all engines nowadays are 4 valves per cylinder and one would think out of all the manufacturers that somebody would have the same bore centres. The camshaft drive would not be too difficult to sort out.

As Alfa Romeo, or race tuners of the day, did make these then surely you could argue/debate that that is all you are reproducing??

Anyway I'll go back into my shell as this idea is way to radical I guess ... ;)

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Psk
You must have read my mind, I spent a chunk of today with an Alfa 105 head gasket in my mitt calling into wreckers and parts depts trying to match up headbolts and cylinder bores. Tried a couple of Hondas to no avail. Next on the agenda is E30 BMW 318is 16 v. They have the right bore diameter - just need to see if spacings are close enough. Wishful thinking. I wouldn't have any problem chucking a well ported Beemer head on and as you say casting up a period Alfa rocker cover to suit and hey presto only few would know.
Have been also exploring the poss of having a 16 v head cast. A friend who is a bit of an engine guru has the solidworks drawings of a 16v design almost finished. However there are concerns that we could not sell enough heads to make it viable. From what I gather Alfisti tend to be tight fisty. What would someone be prepared to pay for a bolt on lastest and greatest combustion / flow 16 v head for a twinspark or 105 that would produce 240 ponies + ? 15 heads sold for 5- 6000 aussie might be doable. Well see how the costings shape up. Me thinks this needs to be done for the greater good of the Alfa populous.
 

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Count this 1 out

The 1980s M. benz 16V Cosworth head will not work. I checked it out some years ago, Thay cost about $5,000. US but you can find them for $2,000 now days
 

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just don't limit yourself to the popular high performance engines... There are a lot of really good 4V engines out there.

Check Toyota, Ford (the brand new ones are chain driven), Fiat....

I don't mention Honda since their engines spins backwards.

And if you find something close, contact Jim Steck, too! He's asked me the same question.

Eric
 

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angelini parts

The text below was posted some time ago. We are also preparing 16v heads for both carbs and FI. Please inquire if you are interested in further information.


Alfa/Angelini Slide Throttle Fuel Injection Intake Manifold.
This guillotine slide throttle manifold belongs to the Angelini designed Alfa 16-valve cylinder head (see the Alleggerita book by T. Adriansens; Appendix: Special Autodelta Racing Engines). Great condition. Photos at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mhafif/angslide.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~mhafif/angslide1.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~mhafif/angslide2.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~mhafif/angslide3.jpg
Asking: $2050.00
 

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Oh My G

Nice clean jobs on those twin sparks!
164QV I do not beg about much, but the white 1 I think is a super.
PLease please a link to that car, and or more photos.
Holy H-ll its got to be a heck of a driving car!!!
Wow
thanks
Peter
 

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164QV said:
I'm thinking to myself: "Why?"
But heck, if you wanna go down that road - why not install a T Spark engine? You've got all Alfa components, and EB Spares has got the parts you need for the conversion.
Yes but a twinspark is only a 2 valve engine and will get blown into the weeds by a 4 valve Alfa engine like the Angelini headed motor.

Pete
 

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164QV said:
Just seems like a lot of hazzle to me.
Oh yes, it definitely would be/is ... :D, but then a 250+ hp GTAm replica would be a lot of fun ;)

Heh, nobody will probably ever do this and we will just stay envious of the few that have a genuine Angelini motor.

Pete
 

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turbolarespider said:
just don't limit yourself to the popular high performance engines... There are a lot of really good 4V engines out there.

Check Toyota, Ford (the brand new ones are chain driven), Fiat....

I don't mention Honda since their engines spins backwards.

And if you find something close, contact Jim Steck, too! He's asked me the same question.

Eric
Eric,

The latest Honda motors K20, F20C (RSX and S2000) do not spin backwards. $3500 on ebay for low milage stock 240hp 6-speed tranny and a LSD with driveline and wiring......I'm starting to kick myself for building a hot 2.0 liter alfa motor from scratch...

cya at WCC this summer

davbert
 

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I am not too sure on this, but I seem to remember that Alfa had trouble getting the same torque and horsepower from the 4 valve head, as they did from the GTA twinspark. I am sure someone on the alfabb has access to the older books that have this info, and will share it with us.

More is not always better, unless everything is engineered to work with the "new" modification. Remember the Alfa is a long stroke/ small bore engine,(for licensing reasons, as well as getting good torque out of a small displacement). "de-engineering the engine shows one can improve performance with a lower rpm, than getting more horse power at a higher rpm. The 4 valve heads will help breathing at a higher rpm, but we want to enhance what we have to work with, not redesign the engine.

And the task to work out the best cam timing to get the most out of a 4 valve head investment seems to be a great one. (If don't you want to get the most out of the investment, why bother?)

Incidentally, research shows that the frictional losses are multiplied as the rpm goes up. So getting the most out of an Alfa 1750/ 2ltr appears to be using the design to your advantage: IE build for the best utilization of the long stroke and hemi combustion chamber design. Larger isn't always better, the Alfa port, properly ported for velocity, is more than adequite to fill the cylinder at the rpms to give the broadest torque band/curve. That wins races!

It is possible to get 200/205 horsepower from the stock Alfa 2ltr head, however at a high rpm, 8500/9000. These engines gererally require a gear box with Hewland gears to keep the rpm drop at a minimum. They are horsepower engines, and have minimal torque, in comparison to a 7000 rpm engine, ( remember torque times rpm equals horsepower, so low torque times rpm can get some high hp numbers). These engines need a skilled driver to keep them in the available hp range. And they seeme to require frequent repairs and rebuilding.

If this seems disjointed, it's because it is! I don't think, compose, and type as well as other things!!

George Willet
 

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Anthony,

It looks like they've closed up the included valve angle on that head by a fair amount. Any idea how much?
 

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From 82º to 45º i think. This head was compleatly useless below 4000 but capable near 250cv at 8000rpm

The TS was tested with a 8, 12 and 16 valve setup, including the use os a reed valve. Alfa sticked to the 8v since it was powerful enough and with a lot of torque also because of the valve timing variation.

In the current TS engines there are 16v heads. Wont they fit into a old block TS???
 

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Holy C$&P TONY!! If that is a group 5 head, that is one step below the Holy Grail of Alfa parts! (the Grail being the GTA SA motors...) That would be the opinion of Mr Black, BTW.

If that is one of the old engines, Don remembers only selling 4-5 in the US, so those are exceedingly rare.

There was a guy in Florida selling a 4V engine, but missing the crank, pistons, and rods... Details.

What is the P/N on that thing? I can look it up in an old CRH I have.

Eric
 
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