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But Mad North-Northwest
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So which model do you have? There's the one with the switch, one with a USB port, and one with Bluetooth.

The one with the switch doesn't need programming and is installed with the engine at the static timing position. The latter two need programming and are installed with the engine at TDC.
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Okay, you want the manual here:

http://www.123ignition.nl/files/manuals/123manual_TUNE.pdf

You need to program a curve or it won't have any advance. You can do this out of the car as the USB cable will provide power. You need a PC, the app, and a USB-mini cable.

To install it you need engine at TDC. Then install the distributor and hook up the red wire to coil positive and the blue wire to ground (leave black wire disconnected.) Then turn on the ignition and rotate the distributor CCW until the green LED just lights up (also press the rotor in a CCW direction, to remove any free play in the drive.) Then you can lock down the distributor and you should never have to rotate it again. Hook up the black wire to coil negative, install plug wires (just put Cyl 1 wherever the rotor is pointed after setup) and you should be good to go.

Again, if that doesn't work, maybe the unit has a problem?
 

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Quoting myself, but clarifying it: However via phone call and a non Mac laptop Tom Sahines/we managed to get in a program of his.

So, yes, I'd forgotten about the USB port.

This wiring diagram really screws me up. The wires come out of a separate opening, not the USB port.

I'm having a problem with the green light. I had been forgetting to remove the black wire. However no change. When I move the unit a tiny bit clockwise, about 2/3rds of it sticks out rather than just a sliver. And obviously, when I turn it clockwise it disappears.

What gets me the instructions imply no matter how the distributer is relating to the lower end of the distributer - if you follow the instructions it will immediately start running.

Any suggestions regarding the green problem? I'm somewhat inclined to think that is why the spark sparked at 20 ATDC.

I'm using the opening facing forward.
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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Sorry, didn't see you'd programmed a curve already.

Okay, there are four oblong holes in the distributor where you can look through to see the green light. It doesn't matter which one of those holes the light shines through, or how the distributor body is rotated relative to the rotor. Seat the distributor body so the rotor is fully seated in the drive in the block, and then keep rotating the body CCW until the green LED just comes on through one of the oblong holes.

Red wire needs +12V from the coil and blue wire needs a good ground. Black and yellow should not be hooked up. Obviously ignition needs to be on.

Once the green light juuuust turns on, lock down the distributor body and you're done. You won't need to touch it again: The distributor now knows where TDC is and will set all other advance through the program you entered.

Wherever the rotor is pointing, that direction is now Cylinder 1. Put the cap on and hook up the wires 1-3-4-2 clockwise from that location. Hook up the black wire to negative coil and you should be good to go.
 

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In spite of the green light I could see it immediately, and as usual it went black but kept turning it a bit.

I then installed the cam cover, etc. and said to myself, "Of course it is going to start first turn...not...and not never."

And then it started on the first turn.

Since I have a lot of thick shims under the 1750's left engine mount (in order to line up with the 5-speed in the 750) it rocks back and forth pretty hard. After getting it up there in revs it was much smoother.

Thank you all. I have to admit I'm at loss why it is now running, but sure not complaining.
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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In spite of the green light I could see it immediately, and as usual it went black but kept turning it a bit.
I'm not sure what you mean. If the light is on when you first start, turn the distributor body clockwise until it goes out, then counterclockwise until it just comes on. Or just turn CCW until it goes out and then just comes on again.

You need to lock the distributor down where the light just comes on while turning CCW or else your curves will all be shifted from TDC.
 

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I'm not sure what you mean. If the light is on when you first start, turn the distributor body clockwise until it goes out, then counterclockwise until it just comes on. Or just turn CCW until it goes out and then just comes on again.

You need to lock the distributor down where the light just comes on while turning CCW or else your curves will all be shifted from TDC.
I had the initial problem on start, @TDC with a micrometer (stupid overkill.. coulda done it with my finger over the **** spark hole) anyway the dizzy was at least 60' off my visual...so as stated previously ..my new #1 ..no start, wound up with at least 12' advance. Engine fires up, sounds good ..as soon as the snow melts we will see. Have to admit the Bluetooth is pretty cool programmed for the mechanical advance Bosch I replaced (for now) and made the curve a bit edgier...just my experience relived with help from ABB members.
 

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Gubi, the green light is round; when I just barely, barely turn the distributer at least half, the light comes on. Yes, I'm well aware that shouldn't happen but it does. So I turned the distributer clockwise and the light went out. However...I could see a good portion of the light, but was now black. Therefore I turned it a bit more clockwise and that is when the engine started immediately.

Unfortunately when I tried to start it later, it really wanted to start but couldn't.

I need to go back, but I'm now thinking the green light is sticking out but black. When I turn it counterclockwise slightly - to repeat - at least half of the light is green. The light is on the left side as in driver's side.

As I said before I'm using the opening which is forward on the distributer. Should I try one of the other openings?

Why are there so many openings and how are you to know which one to use?
 

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But Mad North-Northwest
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The reason for multiple openings is so you can install the distributor body in any orientation you want. This lets you install it so that you can have the wires and USB port coming out in an easy-to-access direction. It doesn't matter which hole you view the LED through, just whether the LED is glowing green or not. So just rotate the body until the light first just lights up and that's the proper location to clamp it in place.

No idea why it worked one time and then didn't another. You sure you've got the distributor body locked in place and it isn't rotating? First time I did one of these I didn't tighten the clamp enough and the distributor rotated from vibration to the point where it wouldn't run.
 

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I am about to embark on the 123 adventure. But am a bit unsure of which one of the models to go for. Bluetooth or or set curves.
From what I understand, using the vacuum from the inlet manifold can be an advantage (for god knows what reason).
When looking up the 123 site, it is only the version with set curves and not Bluetooth that has the possibility to use the vacuum pipe.
And I kinda like the idea of the Bluetooth and the possibility of setting the curves and, well, just looking at the app. Nerdy, I know, but ...
My engine is a stock standard 2 litre with Dellortoes in really good running condition sitting in my Berlina from 1970.
 

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Having played with the switched model I am starting to see some value in the bluetooth model. If I understand correctly it can also be used as an accurate (big deal) tachometer, rev limiter and anti theft device. All of those significantly cool features. Not to mention that switching the switch is really not all that easy. Whichever you buy be sure to price it in the EU as the US distributor seems to be much pricier ever w shipping.
 

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I have the Bluetooth version in my 1600 GTJunior

I use it all the time as it has an accurate GPS speedometer. It also displays in real time the ignition curve/tach/temp/voltage/amps/vac pressure(not connected), which is all interesting to watch given how old the original gauges are.

There is an immobiliser function and you can change/adjust curves as you wish, on the phone.

To be honest, I’m still fiddling with my curve because of the ease of changing things.

What would be a very useful (to me) discussion would be what the ignition curve should be, given engine type/function (race/economy) and where and why it needs to be at a particular advance for RPM and load.

I don’t understand this at all, I’m sure others similarly have no clue.

My engine is happy with 10deg advance (from TDC) at 800rpm, but will also run faster without touching the carbs at 18-20deg. So why not set it at 18deg and back off the idle to 800rpm? This stuff I don’t understand from first principal, nor can I find it

I’m tempted to fit a lambda sensor also to check AFR, although this can’t be integrated.. fantastic value add for 123 if they made a Bluetooth AFR sensor, just sayin
 

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How does it know amps and temp? Wondering how it knows speed too... if its only connected to a power source and coil.
 

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How does it know amps and temp? Wondering how it knows speed too... if its only connected to a power source and coil.
No idea.

The temp reads about 20degC lower than the Alfa gauge. I imagine it’s the temp of the 123 distributor body and block.

Amps.. again, no idea


Picture is upside down, because Apple? (Actually, not Apple, I’ve rotated it twice, deleted and uploaded and it’s still upside down.. so forum)

That’s a live pic, I just started her from cold (18degC.. not so cold), I’m off for a drive ;)
 

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Bluetooth for sure. I especially like the tune function where you can advance/retard timing in one degree increments while the engine is running. I also vote for wide band integration.
 

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When looking up the 123 site, it is only the version with set curves and not Bluetooth that has the possibility to use the vacuum pipe.
I have the USB version and it has a vacuum port. I would imagine that USB and Bluetooth would be the same distributor with a different interface.

Wondering how it knows speed too...
It is probably just from the app on the phone. There are plenty of GPS speed apps for mobile phones.
 

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My engine is happy with 10deg advance (from TDC) at 800rpm, but will also run faster without touching the carbs at 18-20deg. So why not set it at 18deg and back off the idle to 800rpm? This stuff I don’t understand from first principal, nor can I find it
I'm by no means an expert, far from it in fact. But I suspect you haven't driven it with 18 deg at idle. You'll likely find when you put load on the engine, it won't be happy with that amount of advance.
 

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I'm by no means an expert, far from it in fact. But I suspect you haven't driven it with 18 deg at idle. You'll likely find when you put load on the engine, it won't be happy with that amount of advance.
Cheers Tim,

I’ve driven it for the last four weeks, most every day with @18deg adv. from TDC, checked several times, with a strobe.... It’s fine, just runs 2-300rpm faster at idle. That said, I don’t think my carbs are setup properly.. the last person to touch them was me :wink2:

The Alfaholics curve that was supplied uses much less advance at idle, but even they couldn’t tell me if their curve was baselined at TDC or the static advance mark (so +6deg again). Pretty bloody frustrating actually, you’d think they know if it should be set from TDC or Static.. their lack of attention/detail has stalled my TS parts build if I’m honest :( ... now I’m stalking 057 controllers, Tesla3 drive units and batteries (I’m easily distracted)

HOWEVER, this goes to my point re curve calibration in my original post (#473)

I would like to be able to tune it to some degree (pardon the pun), without a dyno (or speeding ticket). To do that I want to understand from first principals why the curve (needs to) change (rpm/load). I have a vague idea about piston Vs flame propagation speeds, was wondering if there was anything more to it.

Perhaps it’s absolutely impossible to do this without a dyno.
Perhaps it can be done a little bit with an AFR meter
I’m just wondering, as the Bluetooth 123 system allows for pretty much any curve, on the fly.

I think it would make a very interesting supplementary discussion for this thread if those in the “know” could elaborate on what and why.

You could start... why do you suspect I can’t drive it 18deg from idle? :)

I’m also wondering if I can balance the carbs using the MAP/vacuum advance connection.. I suspect the vacuum may be too small (lean..?) for the sensor, or have pulses. I can make the 123 MAP gauge change just by sucking on the hose though, which is kinda fun (1st time), although the gauge may not show the required resolution.. no idea.. just postulating :)

For those who asked about Voltage and Amps.. it does show changes when a load is applied (high beam, revs, etc). It is a GPS speedo (has some latency) and the temp gauge works
 

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Analog Vacuum

And back to my question about the vacuum pipe to inlet manifold vs using it without.
I am told that having the vacuum pipe fitted gives a quicker response when decelerating, i.e. letting the foot of the speeder.
Whereas using it without can rely solely on the revolution of the engine, i.e. engine braking.
Any thoughts?

And when looking at the Bluetooth version on the net, it isn’t clear whether it has a vacuum pipe connection.

So if I go for the 123 version with pre-set advance curves and not Bluetooth, I will be limiting myself to the setting that is for a 2.0 liter engine. Doesn’t make snese to experiment with curves that are intended for 1300 or 1600's.

Hmmm ...
 

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