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Richard Jemison
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Curves

I agree Ric, ignition curves are not near as important as Feminine curves.

I`ve never found an Alfa engine that didn`t start , idle and have better low & mid-range power with more static (idle) advance. The "D" curve (ED posted these in an earlier email ) has a total of 21 degrees total. If timing is set to the correct maximum advance say 34 degrees, then static would be 14 degrees BTDC. Idle speed is controlled by the idle screw on the carb.

On little mouse motors where max advance is specified with much more max advance(???) then a curve with more total advance a different curve with more total advance might be appropriate. But the need for a varying rate of advance seems un-necessary. As well the need for max advance in smaller bore motors where flame travel is shorter???

As to engines with high compression being harder to start is non=sense. Even with my 14+ to 1 motor was an easy to start with no heavy starter load.
 

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Discussion Starter #402
I have held back from posting this but what the heck. A couple of years ago my 123 distributor failed and I sent it to the importer to be repaired. In order to keep the car on the road I bought an RML distributor from Rick. I was a little sceptical that the curve wpuld be OK ands I called Rick and he assaured me that it would work well with my motor. It was terrible. In order to get the car to start and run well at low rpm I had to advance the ignition and then I had far too much advance at 4000 and up. When I adjusted it to get the correct high rpm advance it had so little at low rpm that the throttle response was awful and I had to turn in the idle screw on the Webers so much that I was opening the first progression holes to get it to idle. As soon as the 123 came back I sold the RML.
 

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Richard
I get all that... I just don't see what the curve does?? The engine runs at max advance right?? What's with the curve?
The engine runs at max RPM right? what is the diff between the A-B-C-D thing if they all run at say 34 deg. Regarding the starting thing
if you use a gear reduction permanent magnet unit you will not have a starting problem. With wound field coil starters like many OLD alfas have it could be a problem. Hope you made the storm OK
RML
 

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This is the curve we setup for my built 1300 mouse motor. It’s a bit modded, and the limit of 123 curves, meant I elected to buy the 123bluetooth version. Which is completely programmable on the curve.

We played around quite a bit (3hours on the Dyno), this was the best curve we found for mine.
 

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Jamieandthemag, Can you tell me how you saved your curve? It won't let me save the curve with values under 500 rpm. I also have the bluetooth version and I must be missing something. Also a "save as" function would be nice. If I'm missing that as well please tell me. Thanks!
 

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Jamieandthemag, Can you tell me how you saved your curve? It won't let me save the curve with values under 500 rpm. I also have the bluetooth version and I must be missing something. Also a "save as" function would be nice. If I'm missing that as well please tell me. Thanks!
I’m going to have to do this from memory....
Firstly you can make adjustments whilst the car is running, but CANNOT save as. So I did a screen shot of the curve, or noted the levels needed following a Dyno run. Turned the car off, ignition on, then reprogrammed the “Live” curve to the settings found to work (aka saved on the screen shot or on notes).
Yes a SAVE AS would be nice, and I’ve already requested it from 123..... if you do to, it’s adds weight to demands.
I suspect it might be a safety issue, because whilst you can tune in the go, it won’t over-write you main saved settings.

The system won’t let you make entry 1 below 500. But for cranking over we found that my car needed 7 degrees advance beyond the standard 0 for best firing from cold. So needed an entry below 500, because turning the car over on the starter motor spins the engine at below 500!
We found you can make entry number 2 below 500, so we set mine to 300 @ 7degrees.
Hence if you look at my graph, it’s a bit weird in that my graph initially goes to the left, before it goes right...... that’s just because the points go down to 300, after 500, before going back up.

Hope that helps.
 

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It does help, a lot! Thanks and hopefully they will listen to feedback. Unless it's something inherent to android a software update should be all it would take for a "save as". Thanks again for your help.
 

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They do know that the android version of their software is a lot more buggy, than the iOS version. I used iPad and iPhone to programme mine.
 

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I've never bought anything i mainly for totally irrational reasons. I guess I'm just an anti itite
 

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Discussion Starter #411
The screwdriver version allows the likes of me to use it. I could not face learning my wife's phone in order to work on my car.
 

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I spent enough time at work trying to get film recorders to talk to computers through a scci card so you'd think I'd be wary of all this new fangled stuff. Then again if you can dial a phone number you can use the 123 "app", it's that easy.
 

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At First I Was Apprehensive About Somebody In India hacking Into My Bluetooth 123 Distributor And Changing The Advance Curve But I Got Over It And I Think It's The Way To Go.

-John
 

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1984...
 

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Get over it guys, it real easy, once programmed you can choose not to use the app again.

But the App has a great dashboard that I use whilst driving, and even has an immobiliser function, that’s an anti theft device.

It’s been on the car 18 months, not a single hiccup.
 

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Update and this jives with what's already been written. My first foray was with an Android phone with v4.1 bluetooth and it had much less functionality than the iPhones. Then it would not connect at all which was weird because initially it was a breeze to connect. Since my pos phone was about 4 years old I went ahead and got an iPhone with v4.2 bluetooth and it has all the advertised functionality. So if one is going to go this route I'd go with an iPhone unless of course there is a difference between versions 4.1 and 4.2 Bluetooth that would make up the differences.
 

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123 Dizziness

:surrender: I went through all of Alfa bulletin boards posts, there are many articles on the Bluetooth,123 dizzy. what I can't seem to find is the ideal curve for the stock Euro-spec 1964, 1600 GT Sprint curve. All the data I have seen so far are for USA cars with either pollution webers or 1750-2000, high comp pistons, etc. setups.
I loaded up the Bluetooth today and the car will not start after further investigation I could see that there are many options as far as, how to plot a
curve, I was wondering if anyone has these data. As far as my experience with sophisticated electronics it is woefully inadequate, I am stranded on the information superhighway. The installation was a snap using the cams to bring to TDC and checking the #1 TDC was @ 0. The coil is a 3-ohm flamethrower. The cams, carburetors and mechanical advance Bosch are all bone stock. Please be gentle with your responses and speak slowly..... the 12 still flashes on my VCR playback, if you get my drift.....

Thanks
 

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EDIT! Blue wire to ground,
I'm not sure exactly what your problem is but I'll give it a shot. I'm using a MSD StreetFire CD ignition, red to red, white to black, blue to ground.
Still won't start? Disconnect Blue wire that goes to ground and with the motor at TDC on the compression stroke turn ignition on and rotate distributor clockwise past TDC and then turn anti clockwise until blue led inside distributor lights. (helps to have lights off in the shop) That will put the distributor at TDC and a baseline for further advance. Turn ignition off. Hook blue wire up to ground. Are you getting spark? Just about any curve will get it running. Push "create" button on app
5 @ 500
[email protected] 1000
15 @ 2000
20 @ 2500
25 @ 2700
27 @ 3000
32 @ 3500
32 @ 6500
31 @ your redline
set max rpm in upper right at where you want the rev limiter to kick in.
This curve isn't intended to be your ideal curve but a starting point.
With the bluetooth connected and ignition on after you have saved your curve write it to the distributor "write" button on app. If you have spark the motor will start. Android phones don't work so well. iPhones do.
Hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #420
Go to the first post in this thread and there is a link to a pdf of data for all of the curves in the original 123 distributor. There is one for the Giulia GT, #6 I think.
 
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