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New cats, new O2 sensor, repaired front exhaust leaks and I still get the 1223 code from time to time (typically as it warms up...)
1223 Code - 1994 164 LS;
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Have you cleared the codes?
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Thanks - all good suggestions.
Yep, cleared the codes but it came back!
Yep, cleared the codes but it came back!
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johnny
IS the code linked to the coil arcing? I can;t see how it could be but it seems a strange coincidence -- are these two things acting together?
I redid one coil years ago by using high temp silicone sealant around the outside of the coil -- still working fine in the auto LS -- I saw the black carbon arc of the spark and spread the high temp stuff over/around it with a finger and a really small putty knife (after cleaning it with Isopropyl and DI water) --
bob
IS the code linked to the coil arcing? I can;t see how it could be but it seems a strange coincidence -- are these two things acting together?
I redid one coil years ago by using high temp silicone sealant around the outside of the coil -- still working fine in the auto LS -- I saw the black carbon arc of the spark and spread the high temp stuff over/around it with a finger and a really small putty knife (after cleaning it with Isopropyl and DI water) --
bob
My 94LS did this for some time, the check engine light (with the 1223 code) showing up after a few seconds of idling, but going away upon driving away. After I cleaned up all the electrical connections in the engine compartment using dielectric grease, the problem has never come back. In any event this never caused the car to fail the smog check.
I determined that through step by step elimination, the most probable cause was that the ignition module connections were not as clean as they should have been. The 94's and 95's seem to be susceptible to this problem.
I determined that through step by step elimination, the most probable cause was that the ignition module connections were not as clean as they should have been. The 94's and 95's seem to be susceptible to this problem.
Hi guys , how do you get to show a code ....what is the procedure, do you need a code reader or something? I have a 164 LS 1994 and I do not get the light on the instrument panel lighed when I turn the key, before starting, only a couple on the far left side. Any suggestions?
Tks
Tks
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A few questions!
Nicholas where are you located? IF USA, then when you turn your car on (run position just before you start it) does the CHECK ENGINE show up in red on the right hand side?
If no then we gotta figure out why before we can worry about codes. Burned out bulb perhaps?
If yes then the procedure is
turn ignition to Stop and remove key
insert key and turn key to RUN position
STAMP HARD all the way to the floor on the accel pedal 5 times in 4 seconds -- stamp it hard enough to go all the way to the floor, lift off completely and repeat -- you cant be shy about going all the way to the floor
the check engine light will flash codes
IF you are in UK or somewhere in Europe I am not sure if the diagnostics in that car are wired -- ie there are some 24V supers that do not have the feature
Nicholas where are you located? IF USA, then when you turn your car on (run position just before you start it) does the CHECK ENGINE show up in red on the right hand side?
If no then we gotta figure out why before we can worry about codes. Burned out bulb perhaps?
If yes then the procedure is
turn ignition to Stop and remove key
insert key and turn key to RUN position
STAMP HARD all the way to the floor on the accel pedal 5 times in 4 seconds -- stamp it hard enough to go all the way to the floor, lift off completely and repeat -- you cant be shy about going all the way to the floor
the check engine light will flash codes
IF you are in UK or somewhere in Europe I am not sure if the diagnostics in that car are wired -- ie there are some 24V supers that do not have the feature
I am in Edmonton, Canada.....and also posted about the LCD display.
Yes on the right side : Check engine and "seat belt". on the left side " Seat belt" and ABS whic goes out before starting.
All the middle check lights....dont light up. not even when I push the "test" button.
Now on my other 164L ....its like a Xmas tree. BDW one check light is stuck "on ", the defroster, after the mechanic did something (?????) and pushing the switch does not make any difference
Any idea ......for both cases?
Tks
Nick
Yes on the right side : Check engine and "seat belt". on the left side " Seat belt" and ABS whic goes out before starting.
All the middle check lights....dont light up. not even when I push the "test" button.
Now on my other 164L ....its like a Xmas tree. BDW one check light is stuck "on ", the defroster, after the mechanic did something (?????) and pushing the switch does not make any difference
Any idea ......for both cases?
Tks
Nick
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An odd problem I ran into some years back and I tried all the things the book recommended and still came up short. The problem was in the vacumn advance fuel module on the fuel rail. The unit was failing internally and once I replaced it with a new one, the car ran perfect. It was showing a 1223 code just like yours and when the car got warm is when the car really fell flat on its face.
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I am dealing with the 1223 code on my 95 Q as well now that I have cleared out the knock sensor code. The car was stone cold when I went for a test drive after clearing any fault codes from the computer. The light came on in a 1/4 mile. As I came up to a stop sign, the code went out. Went down the road driving normally and teh light would come on and go out. Driving about 2 miles, the car seemed to run fine. I turned around and hit the gas hard going through the gears. That car pulls hard in 3rd to about 90! 
The light was out for a while, but going back down my street the light came back on. I could accelerate and the light would come on and then go out when I took my foot off the gas. Makes me think there is an air leak. I made sure the new rubber boot was securely fastened to the air flowmeter/mainfold. The EGR valve was found to be loose on the bottom and I made sure it was very tight before I test drove the car. Any thoughts on what I should check? I was going to check the connectors and clean them with DeOxit D5 and DeOxit Gold to see if it might be an intermittant contact.
The light was out for a while, but going back down my street the light came back on. I could accelerate and the light would come on and then go out when I took my foot off the gas. Makes me think there is an air leak. I made sure the new rubber boot was securely fastened to the air flowmeter/mainfold. The EGR valve was found to be loose on the bottom and I made sure it was very tight before I test drove the car. Any thoughts on what I should check? I was going to check the connectors and clean them with DeOxit D5 and DeOxit Gold to see if it might be an intermittant contact.
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New 1223 code root cause
On my 5 speed, I was getting 1223 code on occasion. Traced the problem to a sticking relay on the aux air pump (only on a 95) that kept the pump on after the 90? second initial energize-- the pump would stay on since the high current side of the relay was sticking.
As a side, I found out the relay position under the hood was switched-- the horn relay and air pump relay were physically switched --and its the same relay for both -- so once I got that figured out (I replaced the horn relay twice thinking it was the air pump relay!) no more 1223
On my 5 speed, I was getting 1223 code on occasion. Traced the problem to a sticking relay on the aux air pump (only on a 95) that kept the pump on after the 90? second initial energize-- the pump would stay on since the high current side of the relay was sticking.
As a side, I found out the relay position under the hood was switched-- the horn relay and air pump relay were physically switched --and its the same relay for both -- so once I got that figured out (I replaced the horn relay twice thinking it was the air pump relay!) no more 1223
Hi guys speaking about relays. Under hood my 91 L has a couple of relays on the right side, a couple of relays on the left side and....a couple of relays in the midle,close to the right side.
Now, I know that they are original equipment because the wiring is coming from the harness but I cannot find anywhere what they are for. They are the same but one of them (the right one) has 87 bridged with 85.
Any clue??
Tks
Nick
Now, I know that they are original equipment because the wiring is coming from the harness but I cannot find anywhere what they are for. They are the same but one of them (the right one) has 87 bridged with 85.
Any clue??
Tks
Nick
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First off on LHD 91-93 12v USA models Driver's side of car is really the left hand side of the car and passenger's is right side. On RHD the right side is now driver's side and left side is passengers.
Never look at car from front and get your sides wrong. It maybe on your right looking at car but it is still left side of car.
So much for that.
To answer you question about relay locations on 164B/L and even S models.
Left side relays in front of air cleaner and behind left headlight are horn, L/H low beam head light and if automatic model A/T oil cooler. Next on ignition coil bracket is first two which are cooling fan relays and closer to end of coil is fuel pump and red stripe engine ECU relay. Finally on right side of car (timing belt cover end of engine and behind right head light) are R/H low beam and headlight washer pump relays.
So where is relay with 87 bridged to 85 exactly? Pin 87 is a power pin to what ever is being operated by relay and pin 85 a grounding pin for relay energizing coil so that does not compute for me.
Never look at car from front and get your sides wrong. It maybe on your right looking at car but it is still left side of car.
So much for that.
To answer you question about relay locations on 164B/L and even S models.
Left side relays in front of air cleaner and behind left headlight are horn, L/H low beam head light and if automatic model A/T oil cooler. Next on ignition coil bracket is first two which are cooling fan relays and closer to end of coil is fuel pump and red stripe engine ECU relay. Finally on right side of car (timing belt cover end of engine and behind right head light) are R/H low beam and headlight washer pump relays.
So where is relay with 87 bridged to 85 exactly? Pin 87 is a power pin to what ever is being operated by relay and pin 85 a grounding pin for relay energizing coil so that does not compute for me.
Hi Steve, appreciate your precision. It is the two relays on the coil bracket...the right is the fuel pump and , I guess the left one if the fan relay which has 85 and 87 bridged. Why......I dont know.
I will take the wire out and see if the fan starts or, I will let the car run untill the fan kicks in and then pull the relay and the wire out and put the relay back in and see what happens.
How does that sound?
Tks
Ciao
I will take the wire out and see if the fan starts or, I will let the car run untill the fan kicks in and then pull the relay and the wire out and put the relay back in and see what happens.
How does that sound?
Tks
Ciao
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What is real problem here cooling fan and what model 164?
Let's understand each other first. What model 164 do you have? ON USA 12v 164B/L/S MODELS and USA 24v 164LS/Q there are 4 relays on radiator bracket. The two smaller ones nearer ignition coil on 12v models are Bosch red stripe engine ECU relay (code S12b) and same size one Bosch (code S12a) for fuel pump. The two larger 50A ones are low (code I1) and high speed (code I68) relays for cooling fan settings are closer to headlight end of radiator bracket.
Which one and what color wires are bridging 85 to 87 as this does not compute?
NOW by original design both larger 50A cooling fan relays are bridged together with pink-white wires between pins 86 which is power wires from ignition switch via fuse F14 to engergize relays. The pink-white wire from fuse box fuse F14 goes to I1/I99 low speed relay pin 86 first then second pink-white wire goes over to pin 86 of high speed relay I68/I100.
Tell us what is the exact problem and model of 164 you have please. You say in post 14 you have 164L but in an earlier post you say you have a 94LS 24v if that is true what I said about relays is almost the same but slightly different. Still same 4 relays but different code numbers for cooling fan ones - I99 low speed and I100 high speed and there isn't an ignition coil on bracket on 24v models.
Let's understand each other first. What model 164 do you have? ON USA 12v 164B/L/S MODELS and USA 24v 164LS/Q there are 4 relays on radiator bracket. The two smaller ones nearer ignition coil on 12v models are Bosch red stripe engine ECU relay (code S12b) and same size one Bosch (code S12a) for fuel pump. The two larger 50A ones are low (code I1) and high speed (code I68) relays for cooling fan settings are closer to headlight end of radiator bracket.
Which one and what color wires are bridging 85 to 87 as this does not compute?
NOW by original design both larger 50A cooling fan relays are bridged together with pink-white wires between pins 86 which is power wires from ignition switch via fuse F14 to engergize relays. The pink-white wire from fuse box fuse F14 goes to I1/I99 low speed relay pin 86 first then second pink-white wire goes over to pin 86 of high speed relay I68/I100.
I do have both: 1995 LS and 1991 L. I was talking about the L.
Looking from inside the car........ as per your instruction
There are six relays : two behind the left headlight, two few inches away towards the center of the car and two behind the right head light.
The one in discussion are the center couple. Still looking at this two center relays from inside the vehicle,..... we have a left and a right.
I pulled the right one with the engine running and it shut down. I inserted the relay back and restarted and pulled the "left" relay and nothing happened.
I will take apicture and check the wire colors of the bridged posts and send it t.
Tks
Nick
Looking from inside the car........ as per your instruction
There are six relays : two behind the left headlight, two few inches away towards the center of the car and two behind the right head light.
The one in discussion are the center couple. Still looking at this two center relays from inside the vehicle,..... we have a left and a right.
I pulled the right one with the engine running and it shut down. I inserted the relay back and restarted and pulled the "left" relay and nothing happened.
I will take apicture and check the wire colors of the bridged posts and send it t.
Tks
Nick
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To continue my discussion with my Q and the 1223 code. This is really bizarre behavior. after checking all the hoses, finding nothing amiss and cleaning the connections with DeOxit and making sure the connections were solid, I cleared the codes and went for a drive. I got a 1/2 mile this time before the red light kicked in. I could make it go out by taking my foot off the accellerator. The light would go out. I drove a 6 mile round trip loop. The light would come on, foot off the accelerator it would go out. A couple tenths of a mile the procedure would continue several times, until the light came on and stayed on about 4 miles into the test drive. The car ran fine the entire time. I am wondering if it has something to do with the O2 sensor?
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Could be O2 sensor getting lazy or something else is tricking it and it can't adjust problem past it's +/- monitoring limits.
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