Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Alfisti,

Greig Smith has informed me that my '64 Giulia Spider came with a SPICA manifold originally used on fuel injected cars. However, 2 POs ago, Mike Besic modified it used to accept dual Webers. While Greig thinks it should work fine, Greig recommends that I try to find a later 105 version manifold with the drop in thermostat.

When I do a Google image search for said manifold, dozens of items appear without markings to identify a later version 105 manifold with the drop-in thermostat.

The questions, please:

1. What would be a fair price for the later version 105 manifold w/ d/i thermostat?

2. What modifications would have been necessary on the SPICA manifold to allow it to run dual Webers?

3. Would these modifications render it unsellable?

Thanks,

Ray
 

·
Trained (ex)Professional, , 1953-2018 RIP,
Joined
·
16,232 Posts
Can you post a pic of the current manifold?
Spica manifolds are already setup for a drop t/stat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,857 Posts
Hello, you do not say what engine you have in your 64 Spider and you do not say if you are after the correct look in the engine bay or just a better look. Your current set up likely works fine.

If you are after the correct look you will need an early screw in type thermostat manifold as used on 1600 and 1300. And if you have a 1750 or 2 litre engine there then it would need porting.

The later drop in thermostat manifolds came on all engine sizes and if you get one it may also need porting to suit your engine or it may be already too big if you have a 1600 (or 1300).

Your modified SPICA setup likely has bolt on adapters and all that may have some value to someone but IMHO is less valued than the original Weber type.

See here for Weber manifold variations http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/carburetors-fuel-injection-air-intake/31111-105-115-carb-manifold-variations.html

You should be able to find a Weber manifold for less than $200, I think.


FWIW


Ken
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,807 Posts
Hi Ken

Agree on the screw in version being more accurate, however Ray has an Abnormale 1600 in his Spider, I suggested a drop in version as it may be easier to source than the screw in versions which tend to corrode rather badly where the thermostat screws in.

If someone has a good screw-in version then I'm sure Ray would be interested in it, otherwise a good drop in version ?

Ciao
Greig
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I am attempting to load the photos of the manifold that came with my Spider:
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,591 Posts
What modifications would have been necessary on the SPICA manifold to allow it to run dual Webers?
Your photos make it clear that you have a spica manifold with adapter plates bolted on (those two parts secured with recessed, allen-head bolts). The manifold really hasn't been modified - just had those two adapters bolted to it.

Would these modifications render it unsellable?
Well, since it isn't modified, it isn't rendered unsellable. But spica manifolds don't carry a high value, since most people are convertomg from spica --> carbs. The spica manifold with the adapters attached would probably have more value than just the manifold - again, people are looking for parts to convert from spica --> carbs.

I have to comment that Besic did a nice job adapting the original throttle linkage bellcrank to the spica manifold. One of my gripes with these carburetors-on-a-spica-manifold setups is the throttle linkage; typically people just use a bent shaft driven from the cable pulley above the carbs. Your set-up is cleaner.

Given how well your linkage is done, and the fact that your spica manifold has a drop-in thermostat, I'm wondering why you want to change manifolds?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Jay,

Let me begin by saying that as I started this thread I mentioned an email conversation I had with Greig Smith who said the set up that I have should work ok. His concern that it would not look anywhere near original when the hood was opened (bonnet, for Greig).

He suggested for the sake of originality, even for an Abnormale, I might consider a later-version 105 manifold with the drop in thermostat.

I would really like to see a side-by-side display of ALL manifolds used on 750-101 spiders. When the gurus on the BB get started with mm, cm, #, stampings, etc., Newbies like me are like lost balls in high weeds, having no idea where we are or how to get where we need to be.

As a severe visual learner, I am grateful for the manuals I have, but I learn best when someone who says, "This is the difference between this one and that one and here's why you need to know that". I'm thankful for the photos posted on the BB, but sometimes I don't have a clue as to what I should be seeing.

I asked Bill Gillham if he had written the "Here's How You
Restore Everything on Your Giulia Spider, (Without Destroying
It in the Process1), In Detail and In Order for Dummies", book as of yet. So far, no books.

Oh, well, we soldier on!

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
The Spica manifold is not really even remotely period looking or correct for your model and just looks so wrong with blanked off injector ports.
You have a close to or correct period head, so why not just fine a screw-in type manifold from a stepnose GTV? The ports in the manifold will then be the later (smaller) higher velocity type which is generally good for a street car.
Keith at Alfasunlimited would have one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
This is an example of an early type manifold from a mid-60s twin carby Sprint GT. It does not have a screw in thermostat but rather a small drop in type.
You may have to search a bit, but I'm sure one will come up sooner or later.
Chris
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
vsharp,

How much would do you think said manifold would cost and what type/year range of head do I have?

I haven't seen any numbers for decoding heads?

Thanks,

Ray
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Chris,

Is the manifold in the picture one you used or is it available at an incredibly low price?

Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
Hi Chris and Ray,
Firstly Chris, the inlet manifold you showed as a mid 60's 1600 GT is the later type, 1750 onwards, but not on stepnose at all. However, the one in your ebay link IS the early screw-in thermostat type which is early/mid 60s correct.
Ray, I would suggest you place a wanted notice in the parts wanted and for sale section, or or scour ebay etc.
Just about any Alfa manifold will connect the carbs to the engine, but it might be nice to have something that is of the period.
There will be people on this BB who will have what you want.
Your head is an early 101/105 type which is right for your period of car.
Cheers,
Vince.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
Hi Chris and Ray,
Firstly Chris, the inlet manifold you showed as a mid 60's 1600 GT is the later type, 1750 onwards, but not on stepnose at all.
Must have been changed for some reason before I bought the car. The engine is definitely a 1600. Also, the thermostat housing is labelled Torino - maybe Alfa sourced parts from the west. Either way, it looks more original than a SPICA injection manifold.

Out of interest, my late model 1750 is equipped with an LSD, something usually only seen on the 2000 models - I guess it was an option at the time.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,857 Posts
This is an example of an early type manifold from a mid-60s twin carby Sprint GT. It does not have a screw in thermostat but rather a small drop in type.
You may have to search a bit, but I'm sure one will come up sooner or later.
Chris
Hi Chris, can you take a front view of that manifold and a detail picture of the casting mark number between the 2 and 3 runners and post along with your above pictures in the Carb Manifold Variation thread, please. Also give details of the known application.

Thread at: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/carburetors-fuel-injection-air-intake/31111-105-115-carb-manifold-variations.html

Thanks

Ken
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,591 Posts
Jay, Let me begin by saying that as I started this thread I mentioned an email conversation I had with Greig Smith who said the set up that I have should work ok. His concern that it would not look anywhere near original when the hood was opened
Ray:

Yes, that's clear. Actually, another downside of carbs adapted to a Spica manifold is the seal used between the carbs and adapter plates (first picture below). In my experience, those things never work very well; the O rings swell from exposure to fuel and even when new, they tend to leak.

The flex mounts used with the factory carburetor manifold are a much better solution (second picture below). They aren't cheap, but do seal well.




 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top