[DPeterson3]

I would have used "long restoration" but that title is already taken and hopefully will be more true for that work than for mine.

I earlier posted the rotisserie pics. The car is now up having its paint, rust, and bondo removed via soda blasting and other media. I go up shortly to look at it, and possibly become disheartened at the work ahead. Months of disassembly, sorting, and parts acquisition. I remain convinced that the shell is salvageable, but fully expect some teeth gritting when I see the details of the previous rocker repair.

I intend to build up both original 102 and FNM 2300 engines for use in the car. The 102 is a big sluggish at sea level, and at 5,000 msl, to 7,000 msl (to get to Lake Tahoe), I'm not expecting much with the original engine. Different than Jay's oft-noted experience, I've had perfectly good results tuning and operating the Solex PHH44's, but the modern manifold on the FNM/Rio engine is set up for either the DDH's or Weber DCOE/OM carbs. Hopefully I can make all that work, and pick up some more grunt in the front.

The FNM engine is coming apart now. I can't tell if it is low time, or just a fancy silver re-spray to make it look good. The upper timing chain was removed by someone along the way, and there is zero compression, so I'm half expecting some rather interesting valve-heads when I get it apart. It turns very easy, so at least no major internal rust.

There are pictures below to show some of the differences between the 102/FNM. The clutch is a diaphragm type, and has a different bolt pattern the the unit on the 102/106. This should pose an interesting challenge, as well as finding out if the Alfa trans mates up, and fits the pilot bushing and clutch disk spline.

The distributor and starter are both Bosch, but made in Brasil back in a time when they were intensely protective of their economy. Still, one must wonder if there is a Bosch warehouse somewhere with a couple of dusty shelves....

Off to see the rapidly-becoming-naked shell.

Don

 

[DPeterson3]

102 Resto update 09-0101

Amazingly, the body shows less abuse than I had expected after 50 years of mistreatment. The previous effort to replace the rockers with galvanized steel was obviously a lot of work, but all it really did was cover the rust that presumably continued to expand long after being hidden from view. Sadly, this stuff will all have to come out, most particularly on the right side as that's the worst area. Otherwise, not too many signs of impact or monkey-business. Somewhere along the way, an owner must have lost or given up on the chrome strips that surround the two sideways air inlets up front, so the body shop "frenched" the surrounds. This covered the holes where the strips would attach, and gave the openings a sort of pooched-lips appearance. All coming off.

The soda blast is working quite nicely, and tomorrow we should have all the paint off and perhaps most of the under body crud as well.

DP

 

[DPeterson3]

Carson City CSI

Hope you readers don't mind this being something of a blog. If there's no interest, I guess you'll find something else to read.

Dismantling an engine with an unknown past is a bit like an forensic autopsy. In addition to simply removing all the bits, one must try and determine what its history has been. Why was it decommissioned? What tricks might have previous owners left behind?

This FNM "Rio" 2300 engine is quite a hybrid. Yes, externally it looks quite a lot like the 102 "cast iron 2-litre". It is obvious there is a new crankcase casting, and the head has been updated in a few ways. First, I must apologize to Franco for questioning his description - the FNM does, indeed, use wet liners like the later engines!. I guess the new crankcase design plus wet liners is what allowed it to be expanded in various directions, bore and stroke.

OK, so why is this engine so clean? I understand a dirty, well used engine. It's story is fairly easy to understand. A clean engine suggests a) a fresh overhaul that was never put into use b) a destroyed engine that has been cleaned up and quickly assembled to sell-off to an unwitting buyer, or c) an overhauled engine that was run, but had immediate problems and so was pulled from service and left to repair another day.

It is a bad sign that the pretty, silver crankcase on this one is betrayed by silver over-spray on the oil filter (spin on, vs canister on the Italian 102), as well as a few other accessories that would have been removed for a correct re-spray during overhaul. The upper timing chain is missing as well. Turning the engine over by hand showed no compression whatsoever, and there should have been some on at least two cylinders even with disconnected cams.

However, in general the nuts and bolts are correct rather than a pastiche of garage left-overs. None of the nuts and bolts touching the cylinder head were more than hand-tight, suggesting someone had the head off since it was run. There is virtually no oil, carbon, or shellac inside the cam covers, indicating that, if it ran at all, it did not run for a long time. The gaskets are not baked, either.

Interestingly, the head is held on by bolts rather than studs and nuts as with all other Alfas I've been around. That actually makes things a bit easier.

Removing the head, I see that the combustion chambers have been recently de-carboned, although the job was not immaculate. Ditto piston crowns. This is when I see that this engine has wet liners that look quite a lot like all other Alfa liners. There are no signs of piston/valve impact, or other catastrophic horrors.

Peering closely, I see that the #1 liner is slightly higher than the rest. Tapping with a plastic mallet does not seat it any lower. With just a bit of wiggling, I pulled it free and found a bit of a red crud on the o-ring at the bottom. It is too soon to know if this is what kept it from seating down like the other 3 cylinders. An inspection of the head gasket shows black blow-by at the rear of #1. Could it be that this was a quick re-ring and valve job without a full bottom end cleaning, resulting in a blown head gasket shortly after start-up? This is certainly what the symptoms suggest. The water jacket was clearly full at one point, and has a bit of nastiness, although not too shocking. This is the only sign that the engine ran at all, as the oil-containing areas are spotless. There is clear oil still in the cast-aluminum pan.

I will need to find some factory information regarding the FNM. There were no o-rings in the head gasket at the oil-feed holes transporting oil up from the case to the head, as are found on the 105/115/116 engines. Perhaps they should be there, or perhaps the standard head gasket will seal by itself? Need to find out.

The cylinders measure appx 86.7mm ID. I wonder if there is any chance that the pistons and liners match something from a 105/115? That would be sweet.

I've read that there was a 2300 and a higher-compression 2300 TI. Does anyone know how to tell the difference? Serial numbers on the block or head? Piston part numbers stamped into the crown?

I'm reminded of my many years rebuilding antique French aircraft. We often resorted to using "the cleanest of our dirty underwear" when facing parts replacement decisions. One suspects the same will be true here as well.

Happy new year to everyone.

Don

 

[BWB]

I'm interested!!!

Don

Hope you readers don't mind this being something of a blog. If there's no interest, I guess you'll find something else to read.

Believe me it's being read and devoured, keep it coming pictures and all
I won't always chime in unless I've something to ask, I don't think I have enough knowledge of these cars yet to help!
Regards
Bryan

 

[conedriver]

Don,

I second what Bryant said. One of the great things about the Alfa BB is the owners and shop proprietors that are willing to take the extra time and effort to document their projects. Please keep us up to date as you progress...

Don


Believe me it's being read and devoured, keep it coming pictures and all
I won't always chime in unless I've something to ask, I don't think I have enough knowledge of these cars yet to help!
Regards
Bryan

 

[tubut]

I third the opinion of Bryan and George. A line in one of my favorite books says: "You teach best what you need to learn most." So, please don't hesitate for a moment to tell the story of what you discover and learn with and about your car.

 

[DPeterson3]

I started these threads without much pre-planning, so now I realize I've got two somewhat intermingled areas going. From now on, any comments about my FNM 2300 overhaul will be posted in the thread "Rio 2300 overhaul + higher compression 102". I'll reserve this thread for documenting the body and other mechanical efforts.

Thanks for everyone's comments and help.

Don

 

[DPeterson3]

forward motion

I learned years ago that the secret to getting one of these big projects done was to do something every day. Even if it is walking out to the garage and taking notes about the next day's activities, or something that needs ordering. Taking a day or two break becomes a 2 or 3 week break, and on and on and on.

For me, the real hurdle comes when the stripping and tearing apart is about half way, and the really nasty stuff is discovered. I used to do cars, but switched to airplanes because there tended to be less rust and grunge, but even so, the challenge is much the same. I must just keep pressing on through the horror until it is all apart and clean enough that the project starts its upward trajectory.

So, today, I removed the right floor boards, all the riveted-on repair panels (what a wasted effort so many years ago), and the right rocker panel, plus a bit of remaining bondo and misc scraps of rust in various places. Much more yet to go.

Really nasty under the rocker, and the sill structure is going to require quite a bit of rehab. Probably won't be so bad on the left, but I'm assuming issues over there as well.

At one point, I would not have considered this car worth the effort. However, the upper 90% is in pretty good shape. My suspicion, based upon the state of things when I picked it up, is that the engine crapped and the owner let it sit under a tarp, allowing water to gather in the floor boards and do bad things. It is worse on the right side with damage to the inner sill along the upper edge of the floor board, so perhaps the car was stored leaning to the right slightly. Not so much damage to the left inner sill, but I haven't finished digging over there yet.

As we say with airplanes, 90% done, and 90% yet to go.

Don

 

[BWB]

Don

At one point, I would not have considered this car worth the effort. However, the upper 90% is in pretty good shape.

Looking at the photos, this looks like a rust free car from UK standards!!

Again thanks for the progress reports, loving the photos.
Regards
Bryan

 

[DPeterson3]

Yeah, it's an odd mix of very good and very bad. Most of the shell is in really great shape. As I commented, I suspect it sat with water pooled in a few areas, and those local areas are really really bad. I'm assuming at the moment that I can repair the frame/sills. Things like the floorboards don't scare me much. It's the hard-to-get-to structure that I'm a bit concerned about. In the end, I'm sure it will work OK.

I was quite pleasantly surprised by how the front and back appeared to have never been crunched. The nose can be hard to reconstruct, so nice to have it as-built.

I'll be taking apart the port side today. Fingers crossed.

Don

 

[dretceterini]

It's probably selfish of me, but with all the work you are doing, I would prefer you use the 102 rather than the Rio motor

 

[DPeterson3]

Not to sweat about originality. I have two 102 engines, both of which appear to be "runners", and certainly in good enough shape for overhaul. Partly, adding the Rio is just for fun, and is very much in keeping with the long history of modding Alfa's for more performance. The FNM2300 is externally pretty much identical, and nearly bolts in. It appears that any mods to make this happen are removable, ie: different throwout bearing etc. Plus, I live at 4,700 MSL, with the intended purpose of this car occasional runs up to Lake Tahoe,l which requires a climb to 7,000 or 8,000 MSL, depending upon which route one takes. I'm researching blowers for a future part of the project - also very much in the Alfa tradition, and most helpful for this high-altitude driving.

For what it's worth, I've divided the two threads, the 102 resto and the FNM rebuild. They may end up being installed together, but they really are separate issues.

Best regards,

Don

 

[italcarguy]

Last week I drove a customer's 1900 sedan with a punched out 2300 Rio motor and a floor mounted shift kit. It made the car so much fun to drive. You'll be happy in the end.

 

[DPeterson3]

Anthony,
Thanks for the comment. In case you haven't spotted it elsewhere, I'm looking for anyone that has overhauled a Rio/FNM, and that can tell me the secret for removing the oil pump. Believe me, it's not obvious. There is a single shaft connecting the driven gear at the crankshaft and the first gear inside the oil pump. The shaft goes through a small hole in the #1 main bearing cap. Either the driven gear at the crankshaft end, or the primary gear in the oil pump must be removed in order to remove the pump. The driven gear at the crankshaft end appears to be the likely candidate, but it won't budge using either a screwing action via the flats on the shaft, or via a puller. There is no apparent key-way in the gear, so I'm betting it is screwed on, but I've applied all the torque I care to apply. Looking for someone who has done this and knows the real answer.

Thanks!

Don

 

[italcarguy]

Don,
I don't remember how it went together. It's been a couple years since we dropped the motor in the car. I have anothe FNM motor on the floor in the shop. I'll take a look at it this week and get back to you.

 

[DPeterson3]

As a reminder, I'm trying to segregate the posts into two areas. This area is for the restoration of the car, and this area (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/190...o-2300-overhaul-higher-compression-102-a.html) is for the work on the FNM/Rio 2300 engine.

 

[DPeterson3]

I've been hacking, sawing, sanding, welding, and cursing. The real question is what to do about the sills. The inner and outer sill structures are largely usable, with a couple of patches to be welded into smallish areas. However, there is an inner structure of fairly thin bent sheet metal inside between the inner and outer sill (not referring to the rocker body panel, but to the inner beefy structure with lightening holes). Various portions of my internal stuff has returned to nature, while other bits are just crusty. To replace the inner pieces will require major surgery, probably via removal of most of the inner sill (this is the part that is exposed to the interior). That is worrying. The shape of the car could never be recovered, and there's no guarantee that we can replace what is inside the sills in a manner that would replace whatever strength they are providing. Given the thin gauge of this stuff, I can't figure what it was doing structurally in any case. Anyone got a comment?

I'm considering going up through the gap between the inner and outer sill, and welding in a thicker-section strip that bridges the gap between the two sills. In the original, this bridge section is part of an ell-shaped piece, and of fairly thin gauge. By replacing it with a thicker flat ribbon of steel, I think I'll recover whatever bending strength was previously provided, but without open-heart surgery.

Meanwhile, can we pass a law that allows us to seriously pummel anyone approaching an Alfa with a pop-rivet gun?

Gack.

Don

 

[Redmerlin]

Don

I'm pretty sure this is what was done on my car

Using an old road sign! The strange photo below shows the view to the side of the rear seat . The green steel piece (the road sign) extends down between the cills as you describe. The ace who "restored" my car in about 1992 then added Jaguar XJ6 coupe outer cills (rockers) and it has passed the British MOT - roadworthiness test every year since then!

 

[DPeterson3]

Red Merlin,

In your opinion, are the Jag rockers a good choice? There are, of course, no originals, so a good starting point is quite attractive. What year XJ6?

Thanks,

Don

 

[sdubi]

Don, This looks like quite a project. Great photos! Keep 'em coming because I will be following in your footsteps with mine in time. I don't think (at least I hope) it will need quite as much work with the welder, but I have not yet begun poking around with a screwdriver.